To think she should have told the father about christening?

[Zippylovesrainbow]

My friend had her son christened at the weekend... And didn't tell his father.
She says it's because they are in court over access.

I can't believe a vicar would do a service without the father present either! He isn't on the birth certificate, but he has rights as he applied for them via court.

It was a lovely day, but this has just ruined it, for me anyway. I know I'm probably being unreasonable, but I just feel that her sons special, religious day is now tarnished by a lie and deceit.

Does it matter what sort of service it was, Lynette, or would any religion do?

Hey op you going to come back and answer some questions? Or just sit back and watch the bun fights?

DiaDuit - "Err- thats why i asked does it cover just CofE or all others"
The clue is in the name of the website - Church of England. Who else could the Church of England speak for?

If you want a definitive statement on baptism that does cross many Christian denominations, then how about the Nicene Creed (First Council of Constantinople 381)? it is recognised as as the only authoritative ecumenical statement of the Christian faith accepted by the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican, and major Protestant denominations.

It is quite clear "we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins." One baptism. Singular.

.

*I meant baptism in the sense of the kind of baptism you have when you join a church as an adult or confirm your faith as a child.

Christenings and baptisms of babies are a church and/or social occasion*

That might be your beliefs, Merrymouse, but many denominations do not share them, believing that baptism is a sacrament regardless of age and where baptism is primarily of babies. And of course confirmation is a totally separate sacrament

DiaDuit - "Err- thats why i asked does it cover just CofE or all others"
The clue is in the name of the website - Church of England. Who else could the Church of England speak for?

fucking hell- how many times do you intend to miss my point?

The reason I would be fuming is that it's an important event in a child's life and even though I'm not religious I would go with my DC to support them if they was religious

How does a baby know it has strong religious views?

What point, DiaDuit? I think you've kind of missed it

What point exactly?????? You haven't made any points at all and just failed to read posts properly

I posted a link that said CHURCH OF ENGLAND in the URL. it was blindingly obvious that the views expressed would be those held by the Church of England rather than, for example, the Reformed Free Church of Scotland.

In my personal experience, the C of E, and the C of S, and the Catholic Church and the Episcopal Church and the Congregational Church all use the Nicene Creed which specifically refers to "one baptism".

If you want to know any more, then why not pop round all your local churches and have a chat with the vicar/pastor/minister/priest etc? I'm sure they be delighted to chat about things with you.

DS was baptised without his dad present.

His dad would have gone apeshit but he's a twat who only thinks about himself so who gives a fuck....?

We had a lovely BBQ

I have to admit that I am rather bemused that the OP thought her day had been spoiled, as the baptism was not about her or her child. Lots of baptisms are held without one or other parent present. I have played for thousands of baptisms in the 33 years of my career as an organist in various denominations and have seen almost every combination of parent/s, godparent/s etc that you can possibly imagine.

I posted a link that said CHURCH OF ENGLAND in the URL. it was blindingly obvious that the views expressed would be those held by the Church of England rather than, for example, the Reformed Free Church of Scotland.

Exactly!

So you posting this ""What is the difference between a Baptism and a Christening?
There is no difference between a Christening service and a Baptism service. Some churches will use the word 'baptism' and some the word 'christening'. Babies are Baptized during a christening service just as couples are 'married' during a 'wedding' service". www.churchofengland.org/weddings-baptisms-funerals/baptism/christening-faqs.aspx" is stating only the case for members of the CofE. Which we arent all. In fact you arent either so i'm baffled as to why you would answer a question by linking to the policy of only one church as if that was the case for all.

Ok, i've never been CoE. i have, in my time, been Congregational, CoS and United Reform. I have regularly played for services in other denominations, including the Catholic church, Episcopalian and Baptist. In each of them, the words christening and baptism means exactly the same as the definition for the CoE.

Now - is that clear enough?

There are some denominations that practice adult baptism, but that is a different thing and I freely admit i know very little about them. of course, the denominations that I mentioned above will baptise an adult who was not baptised as a child - my former SIL was baptised on the same day as DN for example.

The link was provided because you have to assume that quite a number of MN are CoE, even if only nominally, because it is the largest church in the UK. I'm sure you can google your own particular denomination to find out their meaning. You really are making a meal out of this!

Are they if different religions? Was the christening timed to take place before the dad was awarded PR - so preventing him applying for a specific issue order to stop it happening?

Regardless of her motives, I don't think she's done herself any favours, given that there is an active court case; a court will most likely view her excluding him as hostile and deliberately inflammatory; depending on where they are in the proceedings and what has already been ordered, it may be contempt of court. His solicitor could undoubtedly use it as evidence to support an application for a very prescriptive court order, particularly if there are religious considerations.

Exactly, Redhead

Thank you for pointing out the blindingly obvious.
Though maybe you should have posted links to the definitions in the OED and Websters and Chambers too?

In case it escaped Dia's notice, the C of E is the established church in England (the largest country in the UK) and the mother church of the Anglican church throughout the world. Their website was a simple way of providing a credible source that gave a definitive statement about baptism and christening being different names for exactly the same thing.

My question was nothing to do with whether baptism and christening are the same thing. That was someone else. Mine was to do with the father being able to arrange another christening.

Hoick up your judgey knickers and walk away from that 'friendship', you're clearly only hanging around so you can bitch about her to other people.

Your day was not spoiled, because it was not YOUR day. On the bright side, the father is within his rights to have a religious ceremony of his own, and if he does, hopefully he won't do anything at it to ruin your special day.

Yanbu.

Yet another parent using their child as ammunition in a custody war.

How is getting your child christened using the child as ammunition?

As he wasn't invited or aware I guess he also didn't get a say in the godparents which is also unreasonable.

The faith that a DC is raised in is one of the responsibilities that is specifically referred to when the law defines parental responsibility.
The OP says that the DCs father is currently seeking PR through the courts (along with contact) - therefore the mothers choice to have her DC christened into the Christian faith before that case is resolved is, at best, inflammatory. It may well preclude the father from engaging in the religious ceremony of his own choosing for his DC as a baby.

I accept that her motivations may be deeply religious, rather than traditional, but that is something that could be easily disproved in court by the fathers legal team. I'm surprised the mothers legal representatives didn't advise her against this.

No dad is better than a shit dad.

You don't know their back story.

You don't know why they are breaking up.

I have yet to meet a mother that deliberately excludes a father from a child's life or important events without good reason. If she's fighting access, there's a good chance that there's something more going on than just personal differences.

I'm not sure what you mean Families.

And you can only be christened once.

I'm waiting for the thread in a few years time where it turns out the father is catholic and
takes the child for their first communion without inviting the mother.

My XH only darkened a church doorway for weddings, funerals and christenings, and although he was present for both our DDs' christenings, I told him who the godparents were going to be both times, as he was under the misconception that godparents were the people who got lumbered with the child should anything happen to the parents. I don't think he ever quite grasped the concept after i explained it to him.

Balb - the OP said that the mum left the father to be with someone else.

The Father is going through court - already been awarded PR and in process of getting a court order.

do you feel no mum os better than a shit mum who attempts to prevent the child having a full relationship with the childs father ?

You may not have met a mother that admits deliberately excluding the father/child from each other with no good reason. They usually think they have good reason but courts disagree which is why the legal system have court orders

bulb all the more reason for her to avoid any actions that can be misrepresented or "used against her" in court, surely?
If she has good reason to exclude her DCs father from their life,then why on earth give him ammunition that could be used to demonstrate her deliberate attempts to exlcude him in their DCs life? The reasons should speak for themselves; it undermines her case if she is shown to be behaving in a way that could be interpreted as bitter/hostile towards him.