to feel uncomfortable about my son praying at school?

[KirjavaTheCat]

DS is four and has just started reception. A couple of days ago, we were playing and he said something like "...and then we put our hands together without clapping like this, and shut our eyes and say, 'dear God' and then we say things"

I asked where he learned that and apparently they pray every morning. I find this odd because his class is made up of children from all different religious backgrounds, and it isn't a faith school. Why are they learning to worship?

We're not religious. I don't think I'm comfortable with him praying to 'God' every day. Should I say something? AIBU?

Sorry, BookABooSue, didn't check the poster's name before I quoted.

I can't accept current participation as evidence that people want it, because one has to opt out. That only indicates passive acceptance, not an active choice.

Well, my post wasn't directly addressed to "you" personally, more "you" generally as a representative of those who appear to think secularists wish to tell everyone else what to do with their children.

Also please do share how you identify the Christians

Am I imagining it or is there a legal requirement for collective worship of a Christian nature in a country which identifies as (culturally) Christian.

Those ones.

Quenelle you're exactly right except it's impossible to differentiate between passive acceptance and active acceptance.

It is, however, entirely valid to say that current participation seems to say x or y which is iirc what I said. It isn't robust or scientific but likewise it isn't robust or scientific to say all acceptance is passive iyswim. Since a lot of people seem to know they can opt out then their acceptance isn't passive but active.

I don't think we disagree on the fact that actually there hasn't been enough research completed on this area to establish with any certainty what the majority think.

I really don't see how anyone can get so upset about their child saying prayers at school. The thing is....it won't do him any harm, why shouldn't he have the choice to decide when he gets older. Generations of children who have said prayers at school and learnt about God have decided when they reach adulthood that they don't believe. It hasn't damaged them nor done them any harm. On the other hand he might decide he does believe. Why should you deny him the chance to learn. You don't believe, but millions do. Who are you to say that you are right.

FriendlyLadybird

No way to know - the schools don't make it clear on their websites or in their prospectuses.

But they do. They have collective worship policies that they publish on their websites. I DEFY anyone to find one in a non-denominational school that declares an evangelical or non-inclusive mission.

No, they don't declare it.
But some head teachers still do promulgate their strongly Christian views in non-denominational schools, and you have no way of knowing if this is the case until your child joins the school. That is precisely my point.

Pistone

Imagine you were a christian for a moment.

Would you teach your child that the world was created in 7 days by an all powerful god and how this is all written down in the bible?

or

would you not tell them your view of the world and allow them to grow up before deciding whether they believe or not?

My DD who is 5 came home the other day telling me all about a magical dude called Jesus who could perform all kinds of tricks and things. I wasn't surprised since it is a CofE school (hard to find one that isn't around here) but I hadn't quite prepared for the conversation about religion to come this early.

The problem with people saying there's "no harm" is that the things they are told at school are things they take as FACT. It's the way the church operates - catch them young. They'll believe anything.

But 'fact' is not the way religion works. No truly religious person talks about God as a fact, they talk about God as an act of faith. Even GOD talks about himself in the Bible in terms of faith. You can't expect a 5 year old to understand that when their teacher talks about Jesus and read from the bible, it's actually not true the same way it is when her teacher talks about maths and reads from a textbook.

That's the only major problem I have with preaching to 5 year old kids. They take this stuff literally.

But small children believe in Father Christmas because their parents tell them he's real, and teachers get into all sorts of hot water if they attempt to suggest anything otherwise.

After a few years, most children realise that Father Christmas isn't real. It's not something they're taught; it's something they figure out for themselves because their thinking is increasing in sophistication all the time.

Yes. Correct. Parents should be the authority on what beliefs are given to their kids. Not Schools.

No way to know - the schools don't make it clear on their websites or in their prospectuses

There is a way to know.You read the 1998 education act on collective worship.

All maintained schools must provide religious education and daily
collective worship for all registered pupils and promote their spiritual,
moral and cultural development.
Local agreed RE syllabuses for county schools and equivalent
grant-maintained schools must in future reflect the fact that religious
traditions in the country are in the main Christian whilst taking account
of the teaching and practices of other principal religions. Syllabuses
must be periodically reviewed.
Collective worship in county schools and equivalent grant-maintained
schools must be wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character,
though not distinctive of any particular Christian denomination.
The parental right of withdrawal from RE and collective worship and
the safeguards for teachers are unchanged.

secular society here Invites you to take action.

I am glad that my parents were fairly liberal in what I was 'allowed' to hear and that I was an early reader and so not restricted in views.

I still fail to see why it matters that my children think differently to me. (or why I am stuck with what my mother thought was a good thing)

Your children are not your children. right.. but they do belong to your priests?

What an odd interpretation of the poem! They are not possessions.

"I still fail to see why it matters that my children think differently to me. (or why I am stuck with what my mother thought was a good thing)"

You keep saying this- but you are, as they say, knocking on an open door. Nobody has said that it does matter. Everyone agrees with you on this point. Well, everyone on this thread, anyway.

They seem hell bent on making sure that their children choose the 'right' way-i.e the way they chose.
If they are atheists why would it matter if their children became Christians?
When you look at your new born baby you have no idea who they are and what they are going to do and think in life-it is the journey that is exciting!

amicissimma- before I answer, can I just ask- have you read the thread?

"They seem hell bent on making sure that their children choose the 'right' way-i.e the way they chose."

Have you not read the thread either?

Very true amicissimma. That is what I have done.

"It is compulsory to have an act of collective worship every day.

We are a Christian country; there is no seperation of church and state in the uk. If it's a state school it's Christian school."

this shouldn't be the status quo though. my son is starting school next year, i they are actually going to be doing prayers to god and jesus than I think I will really consider withdrawing him from the daily or weekly worship - shouldn't be an opt out thing though, it should most definitely be an opt in thing!

Getting a child that age to pray, with hands together, as if it's real or something is utterly ridiculous.

and if I do decide to keep him in assemblies I will be talking to him about how it's just a story that some people believe in but praying is not something that he has to do or needs to do and that we don't do it but, seriously, any child of 4 or 5 who is told by teachers that they must pray to a god is going to believe it actually works and is necessary.

stupid system.

Have you not read the thread either?

Either that or I am too obtuse to understand it! Take your pick.I will leave you too it.
Suggest you read my link to the secular society and take action.
Moaning on MN for 7 yrs hasn't done anything!

I know lots of people who are atheists, brought up Christians-I know fewer the other way around - I am a Christian, raised by atheists - my parents always encouraged me to develop my own thoughts and ideas and never set to 'influence' me in any way. A good friend of mine was raised by a very strict atheist father who insisted she didn't attend collective worship/RE etc - she is now very religious.

I have never insisted my DS comes to Church with me, sometimes he does, more often he doesn't - I hope he makes his own choice about faith or no faith as he gets older.

As Delphinium says, why should it matter that my child thinks exactly the same as I do? .

pbwer - not all Christians believe everything in the Bible is literal truth - I had exactly that conversation, about creation, with my DS this week, I don't believe God created the world in six days ........... but I believe that God probably has something to do with evolution, but I am not sure exactly what .

Most posters seem to have the impression that there are only two alternatives in this debate: atheism and Christianity. There are more.

Personally, I don't want my young dc participating in any acts of Christian worship at school because I am bringing them up in a different, non-Christian religion. As another poster has said, how are they to differentiate between all the things the teacher tells them, and understand that some are true for everyone but others are only true for some?

From about 9 or 10, once my children understand that they are not Christian, I let them choose how much they participate in the Cristian rituals at school. As an adult, I have no objection to the trappings of Christianity that surround us in most of the Western world. I have an English education and can sing the hymns!

While I believe that State and religion should be separate, I have no issue with the UK being nominally Christian. Because, unlike some countries that have Establishment Religion, the UK respects my choice to have a different religion.

I wonder what other non-Christian people of faith feel about this issue of school worship.

If you tell your 4 year old that the tooth fairy will come and give you money for teeth they lose they are more than likely going to believe you because they trust you to not lie to them ( big mistake..) same with teachers. They are in a place of trust.

Once kids are older they can believe what the heck they like, but when they are young they just take everything at face value. In that context I cannot see how you can justify acts of worship in (not faith) schools

From about 9 or 10, once my children understand that they are not Christian

when they understand they are not being brought up Christian-who knows what they will be in 10, 20 ... 50 yrs time!
How do I know what I will be in 10 yrs time?

Sensible parents Ragwort. I will leave you to it, but not one person has said why it should matter that I believe in God and my children don't. What is the big deal?