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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to feel anxious about befriending his wife?

153 replies

cakepopbakeshop · 09/10/2014 21:55

I have had a lot of very serious mental health problems over the years and very difficult times. For over ten years I have been able to contact a former colleague and rely on him always to be there, through my ups and downs, nearly always on email. He's been a fantastic listener, supportive just be being there and not judging, and, since I had my DCs and he had his, we have exchanged presents and cards etc. As I have got stronger, my emails have been more about everyday life, plans etc. and he never fails to respond. I continue to be in touch with him about 3 times per week.

I have met his wife briefly twice and - I may be wrong -but she has seemed a bit hostile. I don't know what he has told her about me, he is a really trustworthy person so probably wouldn't tell her my whole life story. I am going to visit them again soon with my DCs and I really want to "befriend" her, I feel this is important for my friendship with him to go forward.

I don't want to be perceived as a threat or in any other negative way. Besides not being sure of the best way of befriending her, other than relaxed chatting about subjects of interest to all of us, I do feel anxious about it. I suppose I feel, worse case scenario, that if she didn't like me, he might stop emailing out of respect for her. When I put that on paper, it sounds a bit far-fetched.

I over-analyze my own motives in this friendship all the time too. I am quite confident that I don't fancy him, but I love him as a friend, for sure.

OP posts:
Hexu2 · 10/10/2014 15:12

You are a really horrible bunch on this thread and do not show MN in the best light. OP has said she is feeling fragile and has MH issues yet you've all piled in and accused her of being a marriage wrecker and a user. Vile.

I haven't said that.

I have tried to point out her reasoning about being perceived as a threat may not hold true - and if that is not true trying to befriend the wife is not going to work and she may well be rejected.

She needs to be in a place where that possible rejection doesn't negatively impact on her.

Marmiteandjamislush · 10/10/2014 15:18

I never said it was you particularly Hex but others have and have piled in on OP

CinnabarRed · 10/10/2014 15:25

No-one has said she's a user or a marriage wrecker. All anyone has tried to do is explain why the wife might not be happy with OP's relationship with her husband.

Pagwatch · 10/10/2014 15:30

I think trying to pretend loads of people are posting that the op is a marriage wrecker is as negative as actually saying those things.
Presenting this tricky issue as a 'pick a side' subject is ridiculous and self serving.

Roussette · 10/10/2014 15:31

I hope that doesn't mean me. I don't for one minute think that the OP is moving in on this man. He is obviously a wonderful friend to support her for so long. However, she says herself she now feels stronger and I just think that perhaps now is the time to cut back from the 3 emails a week perhaps as it seems to me as if the OP is hanging onto this regular contact like a liferaft . Sometimes your partner and family just has to come first.

I would like to know if the OP has other friends and acquaintances, I think it is healthy to have a balance and not rely on this man for all the emotional support she may need now or indeed in the future if her emotional stability wavers.

Aeroflotgirl · 10/10/2014 15:32

If I were op, reading the replies, I would be really hurt. Mabey op is being very Naive in thinking she can have this level of contact with a man who is in a relationship. The befriending the wife, is probably just that, not keeping it in the dark and reassuring her that there is nothing to worry about.

Aeroflotgirl · 10/10/2014 15:34

Nit using her fgs, just being transparent and open about the friendship to his wife. Do you contact him? Does he ever contact you? I would think about that seriously. If it's one sided than it is a problem.

Marmiteandjamislush · 10/10/2014 15:36

But you only want to 'befriend' her to make your contact with your friend continue more easily...Doesn't sit right somehow....Almost like using someone

I'm sorry OP, really, for your situation, but I would be a bit hostile as well if it were my husband as well. I wish I could be more open minded, but the amount of contact, gifts, emails...it just wouldn't sit well with me either. If I had someone trying to befriend me being the wife, frankly I wouldn't be pursuing this relationship, and would be questioning my husband as well.

Just 2 examples from different posters, but it's just me stirring the shit, right? Hmm

Marmiteandjamislush · 10/10/2014 15:40

You're basically planning to use the wife as a means of continuing your friendship with her husband. You must surely realise that this isn't a nice thing to do?

This feels an awful lot like an emotional affair. I'd be very upset if I were the wife.

Two more, but you're all just telling it how it is right? You didn't imply anything like marriage wrecking or using, did you.

this place is so bogus at times

Bouttimeforwine · 10/10/2014 15:56

Who initiated the upcoming visit op? Was it you or him? How long are going for?

cakepopbakeshop · 10/10/2014 16:11

Hello everyone, wow i don't think I have ever got 111 replies to a post, what I wrote obviously struck a chord with many and it's actually quite interesting how different are peoples boundaries in terms of friendships if they are married. I like to think I am already mindful of this, as a single parent you inevitably have friends both male and female who are married and you want their friendship whilst also respecting their family unit priorities.

Ok, so here's my super-long reply posted across from draft in Word (I've never written a draft post before, either, so you are all honoured) - you've all helped me a lot and I know what I am going to do now.

Hurr1cane thanks for posting this:

*DP has a female friend who relies on him a lot. He tries to visit her at least once a day for a brew and goes round at least once a week for a drink and a proper chat. Their friendship is 14 years old, if they wanted to shag then they have done before I came along. I trust DP.

On the other side I have a male friend who relies on me a lot. He has severe social anxiety and we text every day. Sometimes I will get out of bed to ring him and calm him down if he is having a panic attack. Very rarely he will come round for a drink and a chat or if DP is working we sometimes go to his pub together and sit at the bar chatting. Our friendship is 8 years old, DP likes him and trusts me.*

Flywheel and LemonadeRayGun, Keemanaan, Randommess too especially helpful. I do not think this wife is the jealous type nor particularly insecure, but if I were in her shoes (I am an insecure person) I would feel abit concerned about the nature of the relationship which is why I want to show her I want to be friends with her too – we can’t have the same bond going back over years when I was suicidal etc. etc. but can take things from here on in perhaps.

To everyone who has said get professional support / therapy – I have had over ten years of it! It’s a testament to this friendship that it has endured where many other of my friendships have fallen by the wayside as I grew as a person. I was very careful not to get dependant on him and he had excellent boundaries so didn’t really let me, either. E.g. he wouldn’t rush to write back if I emailed (years and years ago now, thankfully) that I was suicidal, he would later tell me he had been thinking about me and hoped I had support nearby for example. So I knew he was there for me but not that he was the “ b all and end all”, I had several psychiatrists and counsellors over these years, other friends in whom I confided etc. too. Our emails now, usually initiated by me (he’s apologized for not being a big chatter!) but replied to are normally stuff about my DCs, or everyday stuff like stressing over the car MOT etc. or sharing lovely news e.g. my work promotion etc. Nothing untoward.

And wheresthelight this is really what I would like to do:
perhaps approach it with her from the perspective of thanking her for letting her husband be so supportive and explaining that you would love it if you and her could get to know each other better

Rousette and others, what I mean by wanting the relationship to go forward is to be able to be friends as two families – me a single-parent one and the two of them plus their DC – I imagine the possibility of joint days out etc. I don’t think this is calculating at all, I certainly don’t want to “use” the wife as a means of getting more of him. I no longer feel reliant on him (except in now rare moments of self-doubt, when we all need a friend to turn to) but I like/love him as a friend and would be sorry to lose that friendship. Therefore I would like us to be able to develop our friendship and given we both have families now, family days out etc would seem natural.

Rousette I have asked him about a year ago how he sees our friendship when I told him it seemed one-sided; he said he respects me for having the courage to go through so much and that he enjoys hearing from me.

In terms of why we haven’t done more meeting up in person and doing other friendship-py things, it’s not possible as I live hundred + miles away so meeting up only every few months, now nearly always with his family too, once /twice in a café with him only and my DCs.

Kentishgirl you say Why has so much of this been excluding his wife up to this point? What do you mean by that? There’s been no “exclusion” but my friendship is with the man, that goes back many years before they met, we have kept in touch. I haven’t met her more, nor him, because of the geographical distance as above. And Kentish you say: To be honest, being someone's support in this way is incredibly draining for them. I'm wondering if he feels the need to withdraw from it a bit and has used his wife as an excuse to you, but you've jumped in with 'well I'll get to know her as well'. How did this sudden get together happen? Who suggested it? You or him? I suggested it, he needn’t have agreed, I visit approx. once every 6 months. He could easily have made excuses or cancelled, he certainly knows I am not that needy and is not under any obligation.

To this point in reading the thread, I think the best approach is if I am totally upfront with wife and say “Your DH has been a huge support over the years, I am not emotionally reliant on him any more as I felt when my mental health was much more vulnerable but I really value his friendship as he has shown himself to be a super person by standing by me over the years. I know his family life is the most important thing to him now and I’d love to get to know you a bit better and then maybe we can all have days out etc. in future.” Whoever said thank her for being understanding, that is a great idea.

The unknown is whether wife knows my life story, I have no idea. I don’t mind at all if he has told her and he may well have and she hasn’t referred to it through respect for my confidentiality kind of thing. It I say something like the above, she will at least know from me I don’t mind alluding to the bad times and the way I became friends with her DP.

Saucyjack I wonder what he's getting out of this friendship? Either he's or a genuine saint, or he fancies you a bit and likes the idea of being your rescuer.

Why so cynical?! He needn’t fancy me to want to support me and to enjoy our friendship. I have low self-esteem but even I believe he enjoys my company (online). An affair will not start. Even if he left his wife (totally hypothetical) I would not want to get together with him! I love him, like him, but don’t fancy him. I visited him about twice a year long before he got together with his wife, and so if he had wanted to tell me anything about fancying me, he could have. I do not believe he fancies me at all either.

Bouttimeforwine Thanks for this post: Three times a week is an unusual amount of emotional investment for any friendship. Wow. Really?
Then I'm very thankful for my friends. And the fact that they value me in their lives even if they do have a partner. I must be an amazing friend too, as I'd be around for as much support as they needed
This is how I feel. As I say, I have low self-esteem and tend to second guess myself so, over the years, I have asked myself and my counsellors a hundred times if I was becoming dependant on him or if I deserved such friendship. They have reassured me and I have learnt to reassure myself. Particularly as, as I said above, weaker friendships just fell by the wayside.

Also guys does it make any difference that he emails me in his coffee breaks / lunch hour (probably taking about ten mins max for each email, I’m not belitting though the amount of thought and caring that has gone into those emails). Does that make it more OK for those of you who think 3 emails per week is “too much” for a friendship?! There’s been no phonecalls, whoever said that they were too many as well, I am useless on phone calls, I tend to go silent and not know what to say.

Hexu2 She could well just be shy. She could be unsure as to how to chat with me if he has actually told her my life story and she doesn’t know whether to refer to it, or if he hasn’t told her anything and all she knows is we were colleagues who became close friends. I’m absolutely sure I haven’t had a negative impact on his mental health! He is a very strong person. He may have worried about me, but nothing more than that, I am sure. I have never said anything other than been complimentary about his wife to him. I haven’t said that much at all, tbh, just general things such as sympathising when she had to go back after a short maternity leave (as did I), and saying I think she’s doing very well to be juggling motherhood and high-flying career in those early months back. I also passed on breastfeeding advice via him!! He has never said anything negative about her, he certainly wouldn’t share arguments etc. with me, he is too trustworthy a person. BUT relationship is slightly stuck in “you take he gives”, but it has changed since we have had children as we can both chat about them not about my problems.

Bouttime I love what you said: If you give people freedom then you know that the time spent with you is because they actually want to, rather than because they have to.

I'm going to be open and honest and hope she is as frank with me, and I will respect what they then both say, because I would hate to be either a burden on this man or any kind of problem for his family life but, til now, don't believe I am.

OP posts:
TheAwfulDaughter · 10/10/2014 16:25

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TheAwfulDaughter · 10/10/2014 16:28

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Bouttimeforwine · 10/10/2014 16:35

I wish you well. I hope she does take up your offer of friendship. As we can see by this thread though, please don't take it personally if she doesn't want to take you up on it.
I'm sure you'll play it by ear and see how the land lies. Good luck and Wine to your continued good mental health.

Pagwatch · 10/10/2014 16:41

Thats a lot more detail op and it paints a much less one sided picture of your relationship and your view of it moving forward. The op just all sounded a bit dependent and intense but everything you have added makes it sound much less so. The idea of your two families becoming friends sounds like a logical movement forward in that context and the honest upfront approach sounds the best way to proceed.

I guess my only question would be the bit that coloured my earlier posts which is why you feel his wife seems hostile?

Roussette · 10/10/2014 16:48

Thanks for explaining about the 'going forward' bit, I did wonder exactly what that meant as I was concerned you were wanting even more emotional support from him than before. However, from your post, you sound strong so obviously not!

However, his wife might have her radar up, she might not want family days out etc. That shouldn't be taken as a snub in any way but that could be the case. An ex from my DH's past wanted to cosy up to me - not because she liked me, I don't think, but more because of who I was married to! She wasn't my sort (not because she was an ex of my DH, she just wasn't my cup of tea) He bailed her out financially a couple of times, I accepted that, it wasn't huge amounts but don't ask me to be your friend, I only know you because I am married to him.

Anyway, I am waffling. Good luck with it OP, don't take any future knockback personally if there is one from either of them.

Hexu2 · 10/10/2014 16:56

BUT relationship is slightly stuck in “you take he gives”, but it has changed since we have had children as we can both chat about them not about my problems.

Might take a while for her to pick up on that - she has probably had a long time of him expressing his concern and worry for you to her.

Still open and honest polite and friendly do seem the obvious way forward.

don't take any future knockback personally if there is one from either of them.

^^ This and any knock back that might occur might not even by personality based - some friendships with people have wane since we've had DC despite getting on as couples as there has been very different parenting styles emerge.

Sazzle41 · 11/10/2014 21:12

OP, it still seems you were doing all the initiating and days out etc are all about what you want. Have you actually asked him if he is ok with that and whether he thinks his wife will be? You seem to skip that and its all what you want out of it ?

Do be prepared for your honesty to be countered with, "actually, I want more time with my partner and you need to back off". The hostility you sensed could well be that you are going too far now from her pespective.... I have had similar issues to you so i am coming from empathy not nastiness here, depresssion can make you very self centred.

Sunflowersareblue · 11/10/2014 23:15

You also want to engineer things. Going for family days out is something that evolves as friendships evolve. You don't engineer friendships in order to do family days out cos YOU want to. It needs to come from both sides, and at the moment the wife hasn't shown any inclination to get to know you at all or she would have invited you round, wouldn't she, instead of you meeting him in a cafe. Speaks volumes, I would say, that she hasn't.
That isn't a personal slur against you, just that she sees you as his friendship, not hers, and is happy with that, maybe?

roland83 · 12/10/2014 11:13

I speak to my male married best friend all day on Skype, we used to video chat all day too as we work from home doing the same job. At these times his wife would be there sometimes, his children and his mum now and then. He's my bestie and we love each other so much, like siblings.

I'm friends with his wife, me and friend play squash together and go for lunch every other month, but are just very good friends.

Since being friends he got married and had a 3rd child, and another on the way.. I met my boyfriend and have been with him over 5 yrs now.

We bitch about our partners when crap happens at home, we text a lot too!

My partner did find it suspicious at first, and so did his wife, but now they appreciate that nothing is happening and we would be so much poorer if we weren't friends. I buy their kids little gifts, we always stand up for each other but always encourage each other's relationship, just be supportive. I'm a tomboy, he's quite camp, and we kinda meet in the middle for our interests. His wife is lovely, completely the opposite of me and I love their family unit.. His wife will be a great support to me when I have children.

I guess most would be horrified by this and call it an emotional affair? But to us we are just best buddies and there aren't many of those about..

Not everything is so black and white.

roland83 · 12/10/2014 11:15

Also, for whoever said 3 emails a week equated to 3hrs..? I could bang out a pretty long email in less than 20 mins.

ChelsyHandy · 12/10/2014 11:27

While its nice to make friends with people, I don't think you are wanting to make friends with his wife for the right reasons. Otherwise, I think you would have done so before now. Depression or not, I think you are being disrespectful to her in having that amount of contact with him up until now and not making an effort to befriend her or find out if she is ok with it.

I'm not saying that married men (and women) have to behave like monks and nuns and have no contact with people of the opposite sex outside the relationship. But if it were me, I would make a point of including the other party in the friendship from the outset - if they didn't want to be included and are happy for it to continue, that's fine.

I think you are being a bit self-centred. You seem to see this women simply as an accessory to your relationship with her husband, not as a person in your own right. She probably doesn't have a very good impression of you. I think she is outstandingly tolerant not to have said something about the amount of support he provides you with.

Flipflops7 · 12/10/2014 11:32

My DH's similar friend tried, very hard, to befriend me and I was always resistant. Turns out she did have designs on him as I overheard her drunkenly bitching about me, at length. OP needs to pay for counselling and not try to drive a wedge between husband and wife.

Cool wives, don't think this can't happen to you. It's arrogant to assume others aren't also running their relationships on trust - up to a point.

cakepopbakeshop · 12/10/2014 15:19

Flipflops Your case is totally different. Roland83 your friendship seems much more similar to mine.

Going for family days out is something that evolves as friendships evolve. You don't engineer friendships in order to do family days out cos YOU want to. It needs to come from both sides, and at the moment the wife hasn't shown any inclination to get to know you at all or she would have invited you round, wouldn't she, instead of you meeting him in a cafe.

I am not engineering anything! Family days out is something I thought we might be able to do as two family units, it's just an idea. Most of the meetings were at a cafe.

Gosh, this thread has taught me two things. One: many people in couples feel so insecure that they limit / would limit the scope of their partners' platonic friendships so they felt secure. Two: that my motives are 110% honourable, I am trying to take everyone's needs into account.

I have confidence that when I suggested visiting their house, on at least 3 occasions by now, he would have said (either off his own bat or told by her) "don't visit" if he wanted. He has, as I already said, strong boundaries and is not the sort of person who couldn't assert himself.

I am really trying to see things from the wife's perspective, difficult as that is. She could be:
(1) Feeling insecure (perhaps moreso on first visit than now) and thinking she'll meet me to make her own opinion as to whether there's anything between us (in which case, hopefully she's reassured by now that there is no prospect of such)
(2) Feeling jealous (perhaps) because I have had a close relationship of sorts (I'm not kidding myself that it's anything like a partnership though) and therefore a bit irritated by my visit
(3) Feeling confident in her own marriage and seeing me as a bit of a "madwoman in the attic" (given my mental health in the past, long story which he may have told her) and tolerating my visit
(4) Feeling as I do that she'd like to know me as another human being connected to her DP and looking forward to my visit (perhaps, if she's like me, nervously - because she wants things to go well).

I am hoping it's (3) or (4) or else she's totally indifferent - and I am hoping the "hostility" I felt last time was (and it's very likely to have been) my own insecurity and the fact that it wasn't a very relaxed meeting - my DS wouldn't nap, other DS pram got stuck on a walk we all took, ETC.

This time I'd better just focus on being relaxed and reassuring and going for direct communication about nature of the friendship whenever given the chance. Thanks for all the advice Smile

OP posts:
cakepopbakeshop · 12/10/2014 15:20

Ooops - most of the meetings were not at a cafe but at her house when we were all there

OP posts: