To think that if you are a man you shouldn't stop a school girl on a deserted street to ask for directions

[solosolong]

Just that really. DD is in year 7 (although she is tall so looks a bit older) and leaves for school early when there aren't many people around. She called on her way in this morning to say that she was feeling a bit nervous because a man had just stopped her to ask for directions.
I'm sure there was nothing dodgy about it but AIBU to think that as a man on your own it wouldn't take much imagination to think that a young school girl will have been told not to talk to strangers and may be scared if you stop to talk to her?
I am interested to know what others think.

"Why this blank denial of the daily experiences of women and girls?"

I think a lot of it is abstract. At least I hope it is. In practice, I don't think anyone is telling their teenage daughters many of the gems on this thread, including:

• a deserted street is no different to a crowded one.
• a man approaching you is no different to a woman or a child; if you feel uncertain or modify your behaviour, it's like being racist.
• sexual pests and attackers always pounce; they don't say 'excuse me' or smile or ask for help.
• if you feel uneasy in an apparently innocuous situation, then maybe you're not old enough to be out alone. Shall we shut you up at home?
• if in doubt, remember it's more important to be polite than to trust your instincts. Think of how the man would feel.
• well, if you're going to make such a fuss about it, don't be surprised if one day you're injured in the street and no one will help you. It's this culture of mistrust you've created, for no apparent reason. Serves you right.

Some of those points are how girls are heavily socialised though, unfortunately. Especially the one about being "polite".

I plan to do role play with mine when they are bigger, so they have the experience of saying "No" to someone (other than us ) in a situation where they are "supposed" to be polite. DD1 is especially biddable and obedient, and I think she would really struggle in this type of situation. As I did, and so many others on this thread as well. We're just not given the tools to know how to deal with this stuff are we, or at least we weren't when I was a girl/young woman in the 80s / 90s. Like the poster upthread I moved off transport I needed to be on rather than telling anyone that a man was following me, etc.

I mean they will be saying No to me - but they'll be pretending it's not me

I can see DD1 approaching this with right now, bless her.

Needs doing though.

Problem is of course if you do tell someone, they don't know what to do about it / aren't interested.

I do think there is a strong undercurrent of this is a problem women & girls need to deal with themselves, isn't there? Again, things may have changed. I hope so.

- if you feel uneasy in an apparently innocuous situation, then maybe you're not old enough to be out alone. Shall we shut you up at home?

I cannot emphasise enough how important it is that we don't give out that message. Because giving this message out will stop your daughters coming to you when you do feel uneasy.

Upthread I gave three examples of creepy male behaviour when I was a young teenager. (for those who haven't rtft one involved me being followed out of a london underground station and onto a bus in broad daylight in school uniform, and one involved two leachy adults at a summer music camp). As I said upthread, I didn't raise complaints at the time, and I didn't tell anyone.

I didn't tell my parents because I didn't want to give up freedoms and independence which were newfound and (to my mind) hard won. I wanted to be able to go home from school by myself, and to be able to travel to my friends houses in the evenings by myself, and go into central London by myself. I had been offered a place on a summer music camp which wasn't a child one, but very adult orientated - and I really wanted the opportunity to hang around with adults. I knew that if I told my parents, they would have supported me in complaints. They would also have insisted on picking me up and dropping me places, at least for a few weeks, and they wouldn't have let me go back to the camp.

And whilst logically, I can see now that actually getting their support, advice and their blessing to say "fuck off" or raise a complaint the next time it happened might have outweighed these inconveniences, remember that I was a teenager, and that isn't how teenagers think.

So please be mindful of the messages you send out.

seven I was that poster. I jumped off a moving bus instead of telling someone.

Do you remember getting stranger danger lessons in primary school? I wish that teenage girls got classes on asserting yourself with creeps, how to raise a complaint about creepy behaviour, abuse and assault, and how it is always your right to say no.

And yes, for the poor menz posters, it would be fine by me if boys had to attend these as well.

That is a fantastic idea dancing.

Does that happen at the moment at all as part of the, um, is it called PHSE or something? Heard people talk about it on here hope you know what I mean!

Dancing and Seven DD had exactly those kind of lessons in her last year at primary school, boys and girls together talking about situations which made them uncomfortable, how their behaviour might affect others. Also, about what things are and should be private, how they make decisions about what is and isn't OK.
I was really impressed by the way it was all dealt with and the kind of issues they had discussed.
I don't know if this is part of the national curriculum but I think it probably is.
Thank goodness these things do seem to be discussed now in a way which they weren't when we were young.

Whether she was unreasonable or not, she had every right to ask him to leave her alone. She has no obligation to humor anyone she doesn't wish to on the street.

One of the first things children are taught in stranger danger is that adults do not need help from children. That includes finding a wallet/lost puppy/needing to be show where something is. The best thing you can do is defer them to an adult or ask them to leave you alone. Your daughter is in that awkward in between stage. Not quite a small child, but not a teen yet either.

Should a man approach a child to ask for directions? He knows how the world is and the potential to make a young girl nervous. This isn't some naive teen who's just starting to understand the world approaching someone. With that in mind, yes he should make every attempt to make sure that she knows he's not a threat. He can't be offended if a young girl does get nervous and shuts him down or walks away. As an presumably good adult he will be understanding of that.

Not all men are bad, but you can't tell the good ones from the bad ones just by looking at them. As your DD gets older she will be better at reading non-verbal cues and facial expression to understand if a person is "off" or not. Remember, even teens have limited social abilities. A study was done and a good percentage of teens mistook a shocked face for an angry one.

So, don't teach her not to "hurt men's feelings" just teach her to trust her instincts, and that her time of day is to be freely given by her, it is not owed to anyone wishing to speak to her. I've told men to go away and leave me alone with no regrets. Their feelings aren't my problem. Though, to be fair, as an adult I can mostly tell the difference between a man who genuinely has a question, a man trying to flirt, and a man being predatory.

Solosolong- I was thinking, you should print this thread out for your daughter to read maybe when she's a bit older. For starters I'm sure she'd love it that a bunch of people on the internet were discussing an incident I'm sure she won't even really remember in a few years- and for another I bet she'll have thoughts of her own on the topic.

Also 'fuck them even if they are your nigels' made me do a brief yelp of laughter on the bus.

I just did the frowned-upon thing of asking dh whether he would approach a yr7-ish aged girl on the street for directions. His response, "god, no way"

He gets it too.

To be honest Shaska I think she barely remembers it today! .
They move on so quickly...

You're right though. I should keep it. I am sure there will be other times when we have occasion to talk about similar stuff. As she goes out into the world on her own there will be other situations she has to deal with, and I want to make sure she is prepared.

It's been interesting to read people's reactions and there is definitely some useful advice. I am quite surprised how much debate it has provoked.

I am not sure whether I would show it to her though, as I would hate her to think that I posted because I thought what happened was in itself something to worry about. Maybe in a few years it will be easier to be sure that she understood my motivation.

The great thing about DD is that at the moment she is willing to discuss everything and tells me what is going on in her head. I really hope that doesn't change as she gets older (although I know it probably will).

Yes, there are a couple of things that have made me laugh too - also a few that have made me very cross.

Thanks for your articulate and reasoned contributions throughout. I do post sometimes, but this was the first time I had started my own thread - nothing like jumping in the deep end!

Sabrinnnnnna that was part of my thought process when I started this, which was that I didn't think the men I knew would ask a young girl for directions, which is why I wondered whether it was 'normal' for a man to do so.

Actually talking to DD today, it sounds as if the man who asked her was quite young (well not as old as me, which may not be quite young but probably not old enough to have children, and therefore, less likely to be aware of how they may think); also she said he didn't speak very good English, so I suppose he may well have been completely lost.

Anyway, a learning process for us both...

Actually, following on from our conversation about this thread, dh (who has been out tonight, and got back about 10.30) told me about something that happened on his way back from the station. Something that only occurred to him as a result of this conversation.

He commutes into London, and our station has a fairly long road leading out of it, dark and tree-lined, onto the main road. I would be hesitant walking down there on my own in the dark. He said he was walking behind a young woman, they were the only two around, and she kept running ahead a bit and then walking, and then running for a bit again.

He said he thought she might be running for a bus - he said it's just occurred to him, she was probably trying keep a good distance ahead of him. Lightbulb moment for him.

Nodding to your DH, Sabrina, and applauding Buffy & Dancing! I'm really pleased to hear 'boundaries & stuff' has been well covered at DD's school, solo. I do hope that is normal these days, and also that it's not taught by promoters of unconscious male entitlement.

Very long time ago, I was in one of those interminable airport check-in queues. A man in the next queue was starting to bother a young woman who was level with me. She was about my age, early twenties. Of course, everyone bothers everyone in check-in queues, but he was bodging up towards her, crowding her with his body rather than his trolley! He must have spoken to her: suddenly she turned round, gave him a massive shove in the chest and BELLOWED "Get away from me!" Man, I was awestruck

I've done it myself since then. There are many, many occasions when politeness is the inappropriate response. We need to make sure our kids know what they are.

<strong>It would be so lovely if it weren't gender specific. Men could just yell "nice arse" at each other from their respective vehicles.</strong>

Hahaha! I wish <img loading="lazy" class="inline-flex mumsnet-emoji" alt="Grin" src="https://www.mumsnet.com/build/assets/grin-D7Eg_B6y.png">

He he, my teenage aunt once caused the lights to go on at the cinema and the film to stop playing when she stood up stating firmly and loudly "Unhand me, Sir!" to the creep sitting next to her who had started feeling her up (late 1950's ). He was escorted out :-)

My very down to earth doctor friend was flashed at as a student - she was currently on rotation on the mens health ward so gave her (unfavourable) medical opinion on the exposed willie of the man that flashed her. He didn't like that at all and ran off..

That reminds me Sabrinnnnnnna - some years ago I was walking back home, quite early - 6.30pm but it was winter so it was dark, and a man was walking behind me and closing the distance between us. I turned around and yelled "are you trying to freak me out ?!?!"....I could tell from his reaction that he was harmless, he blustered a bit and said "I'm only walking home" - I didn't regret yelling though - perhaps his initial thought was 'bloody mad woman' - but hopefully on reflection he realised how this was darn frightening for a young woman on a quiet, poorly lit street