to think a sahp is a luxury

[3nonblondeboys80]

for the sahm and the wohp parent. Lots gets said about being a sahm is a luxury lifestyle choice etc etc. However, I think it is also a luxury for the wohp.
eg not having to do half the housework,
half the sickness days,
nighttime waking.
knowing you can go away on business conference etc without having to worry about arranging childcare.
no dealing with school admin, homework help.
having someone to sort out family prescriptions, medical appointments, car servicing etc etc.
not having to share school, nursey picks ups.
Ok I accept wohp has some additional burden being the only wage earner but I feel this is more than balanced by the above.
aibu

If a woman is expected to look after children and do all admin, housework, etc then the same should be expected of a man.

I hope that few would disagree with that!!

I'm sure few would disagree in principle Snapes, but in practice my experience is that when there's a SAHM she does everything, when there's a SAHD he does the childcare and very little else. A few posters on this thread have said that they are WOHMs with SAHDs and they still do night wakings, admin housework etc.

Yes, looking back, I still did all of the night wakings when DH was a sahd, and an awful lot of the childcare, as well as most of the thinking as well. I still do more of those things now, though he works fewer hours than I do. However, to some extent, I think I do stuff largely out of choice - I want to be an involved parent and to have that level of hands-on, day-to-day responsibility, and perhaps I also want that level of control that doing all the "admin" generally implies. I would hate to just hand it all over to him. On the other hand, I'm more than happy to let DH take on more of the housework!

Perhaps what we should really be asking is why some men don't want that level of involvement in their family lives.

Very good question Snapes.

Very good question Snapes.

I do think that often men are pushed out, not all - some are just lazy shites. But often the pregnancy process and early days are so centred around the mother and child that the man becomes a spare part.

We had our last baby at home precisely because my husband wanted to sleep with our newborn the first night

There is rarely such a thing as a quick call ime. Most calls to businesses or public services require getting into a phone queue or leaving a message and waiting for a call back, which may or may not come at a time when the DCs are happily glued to the tv.

And a lot of women get judged (most unfairly) for leaving their DCs in front of a tv while they try to get something done or even find time to go for a pee in private. I worked as a nanny one time and would have been reprimanded by my employers for having my charges watch tv. I also worked in office settings and rarely managed to get through to a human being on my lunch break because that was when everyone else was trying to do the same thing. Or people in other offices were also taking their lunch break.

Perhaps what we should really be asking is why some men don't want that level of involvement in their family lives.
The problem is that many men do not have any idea how much mental effort and organisation ahead of time goes into family life and would be gobsmacked if they found out. It's not that they don't want the involvement -- they simply do not have any appreciation of what the job entails and think it all just 'gets done' randomly or by magic.

Loving the idea of a man sleeping with the baby the first night. Did you get much sleep, Philoslothy?
I hope he did more than sleep.

That is one thing that annoys me more than almost anything else about some men and pregnancy, childbirth and caring for babies not meaning to imply anything negative about your particular DH, Philoslothy that it is some sort of entertainment or special experience they have a right to enjoy; apparently to many men it looks like such fun for the mothers . You hear nonsense like 'we're pregnant'.

When was the last time anyone heard a man complaining about being pushed out of hoovering or washing up after dinner, or cleaning the fridge and the microwave or hosing out the bin, or changing the sheets for the entire family or cleaning out the cupboard under the bathroom sink or going through the children's clothes and making a trip to the charity shop, or planning meals for the next two weeks....

It works well for us. He's often abroad etc. Just how it would impact our 3 kids if I was working all hours too is something I'm very aware of. He picks up the slack at weekends tho so I get time to sleep/shop/go for nice walks alone. It works. He respects my role, doesn't expect me to do housework and always gets involved with kids & house when he's here. It has meant that his career has soared with ease in our relationship as we're not constantly measuring our time with kids or chores, life's not like that for us as there's a high mutual respect between us. We've prob saved thousands on childcare too and provided relaxed unrushed childhood memories for our kids. That is worth so much more than a power struggle between us.

Re: nightwakings for babies, for me my instincts were running full throttle to waken and care for the baby, it didn't occur to me to get DH to sort it just to prove a point or balance who woke most with the baby. He offered, went and made cups of tea at 3am etc but mostly I had it covered (with my flask of warm water and dispenser of formula beside the bed)

I agree with you math- my OH has simply no idea of the sheer number of things I do in a day. Being a mother isn't a big job, it's a thousand little ones so him adding a few more (not picking up towels, leaving bathroom a mess etc) is a big deal to me. Equally taking a few on, making the bed etc can really help.
I need time away from DS, not a huge amount, but some, a drink with a friend in the evening, a walk and breakfast on my own at weekends and OH understands this completely. I am stunned when I hear friends whose husbands "can't" bath their own children, or put them to bed. Baffled as to why they wouldn't want to.

I wonder how much of it is actually a choice though Snapes. As a mum you are expected to know everything about your children and to do all the organising. A dad who's a bit clueless and sends his children to the CM with no nappies is seen as a bit useless, bless him, but a mother who is disorganised and not on top of the children's lives is seen as a bad mother who's failing her children.

I think part of the reason men don't get involved in their children's lives is that boys are taught from day one that babies are for girls. My DH was very involved with DS when he was a baby, but his own father (FIL) definitely was a bit cat's bum mouth at him changing nappies etc. He subtly hinted that he felt I was being lazy and DH was put upon if I expected him to do anything. The babies were a woman's job. Even if that is never said outright, that subtle message really sinks in - I think a lot of men feel out of their element and even a little silly looking after a baby. I remember when DH first pushed DS's buggy down the street he seemed uncomfortable. When I asked what was wrong he said he felt like a big kid pushing a dolly down the road. What he meant, of course, was that he felt like a big girl pushing a dolly down the road. Even now, after nearly four years of parenthood, I still think he feels a bit self conscious when he's caring for the children out in public, as though he's doing something slightly embarrassing. He has commented that people are quite patronising towards him - as in, oh bless you aren't you good to take the children out - and that that bothers him. Even I, I have to admit to my shame, get a slightly uneasy feeling when I see him being "motherly" (ie organised, on top of things, commanding, mother hen-ish). I think it's because I'm so unused to it - all the men in my family, my father included, are/were totally hands-off parents and much was made of the fact that the women did everything while the useless men suited themselves - har de har .

I'm a SAHP and for me it feels like a massive luxury. That's because it's a choice though.
DH still does some household stuff, school runs and childcare, but his life is nicer because I'm not exhausted and there's a meal ready in the evening. Also, weekends aren't spent dashing round chasing our tails.

I think it is belittling the love that my husband has for his children to say that he sees then as entertainment. However there is something very special about that first night with your newborn baby and we wanted to share that together. DD is breasted but DH was awake for the while night I think just gazing at our wonderful daughter.

My husband and I equally raise our children, for many years I have worked longer hours than him. For a number of years I worked away from home for days at a time and he ran the home - with some help because we both worked full time. When I was teaching, at least twice a year I would be away on residentials, often abroad, for at least a week. There is nothing that I know about my children that my husband does not know.

When I went into teaching DH started working for himself, sometimes from home so that he could get to assemblies, parents' evenings etc. Until they reached my school, my DH had much more of an idea of what goes in at school, birthday invites, friendship issues etc.