To think pre-paid benefits cards are a stigmatizing, punitive scheme?

[ArsenicFaceCream]

Just announced at the Conservative Party conference.

They will initially be 'voluntary' for claimants with addiction issues, apparently.

But of course the intention is to roll it out.

Universal Credit is going national in February so this could get interesting, given that UC will be paid to working claimants as well as those not working.

If I was to say to a company/organisation (I always fancy working for War on Want myself): I need to 'get a job' so I'm getting a job with you, see you Monday at 9. What do you think they'll say, ok see you then?

Sounds like a great premise for something. Documentary?

I have always wondered why the childcare tax allowance for working parents has to be paid in vouchers, paid directly to the childcare provider - as though the parent can't be trusted to spend the hard cash on its intended purpose. Lets face it, it would be a lot simpler to just adjust somebodys tax code to give them an extra £243 tax free allowance (or whatever they're entitled to) than the ridiculous rigmarole caused by the vouchers.

Ironically, people on benefits qualifying for additional help towards childcare costs get paid theirs in cash. My friend worked for a council run childcare provision scheme supposed to provide childcare in the home for people that needed a break or had anti social working hours that normal childcare wouldn't be suitable. She lost her job when it had to close because they were owed hundreds of thousands of pounds from clients that hadn't paid their bills, despite being handed the cash to cover the costs!

I remember when the para lympics were on a thread was going one insight ful person popped on to say well if they can do x y z all disabled people could get a job okay then b

Bottom line is, in the case of people such as Gracies brother, the cards will be sold or swapped anyway.

This is fairly interesting reading - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance_Fund

It looks like all social security benefits, such as JSA, (but not tax credits) are paid from ringfenced NI contributions and this money is unavailable to the government. So what's the point of cutting welfare and sanctioning jobseekers etc? The money spent on this isn't actually part of the government's expenditure and it seems that any "savings" made don't make a difference to the overall budget.

*dunno if this makes sense - have a cold and it's gone to my head

Those that truly can't work won't care where their food and heat is paid for in cash or card as they know they need the welfare assistance.

It's those that could work but don't want too that will hate the idea of using one and that's a good side effect. Jobs are fewer but not impossible to get. People just expect to walk into a high paying job, a term time one etc rather than start at the bottom and work their way up. The amount that won't worK as they have a child/children is astounding, yet lots of other parents manage to hold employment and have children.

Like another poster has said, the playing field isn't equal. Lots of workers haven't had a pay rise for some time so a freeze on benefits matches that. Neither do those who work get a pay rise when they have a child.

The cap of £23k is laughable, a worker would have to do many hours a week to get near that if in a low paid job. Not to mention it still excludes WTC so many just do the magic sixteen hours a week as why do more when you can claim.

Whichever party got in would of had to scale back benefits, it's long since been a welfare state but a choice for many.

'Those that truly can't work won't care where their food and heat is paid for in cash or card as they know they need the welfare assistance.'

What absolute twaddle.
There are people on here who seem very worried about it, not just because of the stigma but because of the practical issues that mean it will make it even harder to make ends meet.

Those that truly can't work won't care where their food and heat is paid for in cash or card as they know they need the welfare assistance.

It's those that could work but don't want too that will hate the idea of using one and that's a good side effect.

Bit of a generalisation, don't you think?? Not to mention utterly untrue. I am unable to work, and I DO care about how things are paid. I plan carefully to make my funds go as far as possible, utilising a local market, second hand shops, and so on. I don't want to be railroaded into purchasing things the way the government feel I should, at particular large stores like Tesco and such. I'm not a child, to be handed sweets money and patted on the head. The fact that I am currently unable to work does not mean I am not an adult with a brain.

Fuck off Daisy...I bloody well work in a demanding physical job which is low paid and I finish that just in time to go home and support my autistic child.

I get a low wage and I get benefits. They add to my low wage and help me to pay my electricity, gas, water, rent, council tax and to feed myself and my child etc. how dare YOU or any other Tory fuckwit out there decide I should be grateful to have a card and appreciate that I wouldn't need one if I only worked harder than I already do.

You DO know that many people in benefits also work don't you? Or are you the usual lazy arsed TORY voter who assumes anyone claiming a dime is some kind of scrounging scumbag!

I know many people in a similar position to me, and others who for whatever reason cannot work. None of them would want anything which singles them out as a benefit claimant. It's fucking humiliating enough already without adding to it.

I can't work.

I care a great deal where I buy my food from.

I can buy a week's worth of fresh vegetables straight to my door from my local veg box seller for the same as the supermarket charges just for delivery.

I'm supporting local business at two levels - the veg box seller and the farms she sources from. And I'm reducing carbon emissions because the food doesn't travel to a warehouse in another county and back again.

And you would have all that money pour into the hands of Tesco or Walmart? Pfft!

(BTW, I'm housebound, so don't get the choice about delivery.)

Those that truly can't work won't care where their food and heat is paid for in cash or card as they know they need the welfare assistance.

And of course that's all they need.

I think we need a welfare scheme for the hard of thinking, quite honestly.

I can't work full time or even part time I manage one day a week and I fricking care what I eat getting disability benefits should not make any body feel grateful for every crumb

The ignorance on this thread is stunning. The vast majority of 'benefits' is paid to people in work, or to their landlords.

And again, pensions untouched. The biggest percentage of the welfare bill.

For the posters like daisy who think the 23k cap is still too high, what would you have the cap set at?
If you're sure 23k is too much, you must have a ball park figure of how much lower you think it should go?

Well I live in London and Iam terrified for people. I don't see how the city will function once the £23k cap comes in. So many people are forced to pay expensive private rents. How will they manage? Will they just pack up and leave within weeks of losing their jobs? Madness. How will they afford to relocate? Who has responsibility if they become homeless? What will that cost?

I truly can't work (see my post above). Should I never be able to buy a bottle of booze (even as a present)? Or be able to use our local market? Or go to a charity shop? Or bung the DC/DSC a tenner when their student loan is late (again)? Or get a takeaway when I have been too ill to eat for a week, and am still too ill to cook? Or cover the petrol costs of a friend going out of their way to run me around to hospital appointments?

It won't be paid to their landlord for much longer. When UC comes in (or if), any help you get for rent will be paid directly to the person claiming, NOT the landlord.

Which makes life harder for those who have to claim HB in the first place, working or not.

Also, I'm sure I've read somewhere that it's not just out of work benefits being affected by this freeze, it's all in work benefits as well, including child benefit, both sets of tax credits, Income support (and carers as a result), JSA, ESA...the lot. It's all working age benefits, and that's a hell of lot of people that are going to be hit by this and not know it affects them until it's too late, thanks to the focus on the jobless.

I don't think that Pensions or DLA (unless it's affected indirectly) are included. Yet.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/30/david-cameron-cut-benefits-working-poor

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/29/george-osborne-working-age-benefits-frozen

I think I may be on the worng thread but I'm sure it's valid on both.

Also, I'm sure I've read somewhere that it's not just out of work benefits being affected by this freeze, it's all in work benefits as well, including child benefit, both sets of tax credits, Income support (and carers as a result), JSA, ESA...the lot. It's all working age benefits, and that's a hell of lot of people that are going to be hit by this and not know it affects them until it's too late, thanks to the focus on the jobless.

Oh lordy. I'm quite sure it's coming, even if it isn't here

I think I may be on the worng thread but I'm sure it's valid on both.

It works here, smiles

It's in the first link Aresnic - it's happening. It's here.

All the focus is on the jobless, these poor sods don't know what's about to hit them.

ANYONE claiming Working tax credits or Child tax credits will be affected by this.

And not forgetting that all of the people who are eligible for UC will have up to 5 weeks of waiting from their last benefit payment until their UC is paid, resulting in many people starting life on UC in rent arrears. Not to mention how thousands of people won't be able to afford the very basics for up to 5 weeks.
It is a bloody shambles!!

From your link, Smiles;

The freeze will hit the poorest third in society the hardest and cause working families with children lose as much as £490 a year in child benefit and tax credits. The average loss will be £300 a year per household but it will vary greatly.

So everyone will be affected, not just the unemployed.

I wonder how long it will take for those that have been thinking they are better than the unemployed because they are working, to realise that the whole thing is a scam and they've been royally shafted just like those "lower" than them?

Humble pie anyone?

Don't hold your breath Smiles