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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think pre-paid benefits cards are a stigmatizing, punitive scheme?

464 replies

ArsenicFaceCream · 29/09/2014 16:22

Just announced at the Conservative Party conference.

They will initially be 'voluntary' for claimants with addiction issues, apparently.

But of course the intention is to roll it out.

Universal Credit is going national in February so this could get interesting, given that UC will be paid to working claimants as well as those not working.

OP posts:
DaughterDilemma · 30/09/2014 13:59

Surely they are freezing it because they think it has risen too high

Grin
DaughterDilemma · 30/09/2014 14:01

years ago i used to vote Lib but wont take the risk of another duel goverment

I think things have been a little bit tempered by the fact that we have a coalition. If there was a Tory majority the workhouses would be a reality.

If only we had PR, there might be more coalitions, say Green/Lab would work, or SWP/Green. Even Lib/Lab would be better than what we have now.

kali110 · 30/09/2014 14:09

This has got me worried!iv been signed off sick for a while but only recieve esa, nothing else. Will this effect me?i use my money for things like my buspass and trainfare to take me to hospital appointments!
Hopefully soon ill be signed fit enough but i wouldn't want my jsa on a card, how will i continue to pay my direct debits for things like my buspass? Istill need to go for regular checkups, to go to job interviews as i don't drive. I still need to pay my phone bill. I agreed to it before i got sick. I can't pay direct debits with a prepaid card!!if they gave me this i would just get into debt!

naty1 · 30/09/2014 14:10

Certainly people i have worked with (40s maybe) got to the top of the pay range and then didnt even get inflation.
Some people are 'capped' at NMW as that is the rate.

minterex · 30/09/2014 14:13

Sometimes I think well off people have absolutely no idea of how poor people live.

I go to a local market stall to buy lots of fruit and vegetables. It is very cheap and seems to mainly very poor people shopping there, most of whom will be on benefits. We can all buy more healthy fruit and veg for our families than we could ever buy from a supermarket.

Also disability/sickness insurance whilst working is for those normally in good health. If you have any illnesses such as mine acquired when I was a child and that will shorten my life, the only insurance you can get whilst working is those that exclude pre existing conditions.

So many policies look a good idea when you have no real understanding of how the people that it will affect live their lives. This policy will have no impact on those who drink lots of alcohol and take drugs, it will have an impact on people who are trying to eat healthily and frugally.

DaughterDilemma · 30/09/2014 14:13

Kali you might get free transport - it's arranged by the hospital usually.

PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 14:14

Do you mean their employers don't chose to pay those individuals more than NMW?

That's not the same as wages being "capped", which suggests an outside body regulating the maximum that can be paid.

Eg there's talk of bankers' bonuses being capped.

kali110 · 30/09/2014 14:17

NEver been told i could get free transport. On wrong esa probably!was told i didnt get any dental work free as i was on the wrong esa. Got it all free when i was on jsa for 3 months.
Had to save up to have dental work done and get my lenses changed.
Before anyone says get a job, im 30 and have worked since i were 16 till i were signed off last year.

PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 14:18

And surely the fact that some wages haven't risen is the CAUSE of the benefits bill going up?

Employer pays same wage.

Landlord puts rent up.

Worker ends up claiming housing benefit, with taxpayer (worker themselves!) filling the gap between employer and landowner.

Original poster
ArsenicFaceCream · 30/09/2014 14:21

Also disability/sickness insurance whilst working is for those normally in good health. If you have any illnesses such as mine acquired when I was a child and that will shorten my life, the only insurance you can get whilst working is those that exclude pre existing conditions.

Yes. I can't get income protection cover worth having. Ditto private health cover. Too many pre-existing conditions to declare. As a self-employed worker, I can't claim sickness benefits either.

I spent five months at the beginning of the year too ill to work. It cost us a a fortune and my business still hasn't recovered. There must be a lot of people who hit similar issues.

Now the PAYE employed, despite paying 12% NI, are going to be in the same boat. Why is everyone not angry!?

Perhaps we need something like Obamacare, but for unemployment cover, if the safety net is going to go? Guaranteed acceptance, affordable cover? But NI contributions need to be slashed accordingly.

OP posts:
PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 14:28

But that's what NI is supposed to be, Arsenic. Guaranteed acceptance, affordable cover. Even transferrable across time: be sick in your 20s, pay your insurance premium in your 30s - 60s.

It's hugely efficient, because everyone is paying into the same system and there are massive economies of scale and of hedging.

But it drives the private insurance companies wild because all this money is going straight from the insured person... back to the insured person when needed, minus only admin costs.

When it should be going to THEM! For their profits, and their shareholders, and their sales team bonuses and their executive lifestyles! Will no one think of the megacorporations!

Original poster
ArsenicFaceCream · 30/09/2014 14:29

True pausing true.

OP posts:
Darkesteyes · 30/09/2014 14:42

We have had the free hospital transport debate on another thread I think it was dawndonna or Mrs Devere who said that even children having chemo arent getting free transport and families were having to struggle to get their kids to hospital while they were ill and throwing up everywhere and think of the infections someone having chemo with a low immune system can pick up from public transport.

Graciescotland · 30/09/2014 14:43

I had a brother, sadly dead, who had mental health issues/ drug addiction. He received disability benefit and I have to say I think had money been limited to a form where he could only of spent it in shops it would of been a positive thing. I'm not saying it's for everyone but I can see that there are times where it could benefit the individual.

Callani · 30/09/2014 14:43

I'd like to know what I'm paying NI for now.

Because evidently it's not going to be for sickness, unemployment or disability benefits because those are being cut left, right and centre. And seeing as they're putting up the retirement age every year it's not going to be for my pension.

So what exactly is NI meant to cover outside of this that gives it the name National INSURANCE?

Original poster
ArsenicFaceCream · 30/09/2014 14:47

Just the state pension Calani, by the looks of things, and they keep putting the retirement age back.

It's not a great deal is it? Hmm

OP posts:
PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 14:48

Sorry to hear about your DBro, gracie.

Could he reliably get himself to designated shops some distance away, choose appropriate balanced ingredients when there, and then prepare same food at home?

Because if not, vouchers wouldn't have helped him.

And would actually have hindered him getting milk and bog roll from the corner shop or asking other people to do shopping for him.

Original poster
ArsenicFaceCream · 30/09/2014 14:48

Oops sorry I missed a line Grin

OP posts:
Callani · 30/09/2014 14:51

No, not really a great deal at all. Ugh it's all so very depressing isn't it?

kali110 · 30/09/2014 14:51

Going to say my friend never got taken to hospital for chemo

Graciescotland · 30/09/2014 15:04

He was perfectly capable of getting to various shops, buying ingredients from a list, preparing food. He'd just rather of spent getting wasted and paying for so called friends to get wasted too. I appreciate he was a very specific case but if it's targeted at addicts then I don't think that controlling the ways that money can be spent is a bad thing. If it had a been a choice then I think my mother/ his mental health care team would of pushed for it.

PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 15:06

It's just some of my friends when mentally ill really couldn't manage those things.

It was an enormous thing for them to get to the corner shop, and come back with the right ingredients.

Making shopping harder would mean they ate even less healthily.

minterex · 30/09/2014 15:09

Most people with serious conditions that need hospital outpatient treatment, pay for their own transport. I had treatment as an outpatient that until 3 years ago would have necessitated an in hospital stay for 2 weeks. I had to pay my own transport costs.

minterex · 30/09/2014 15:11

I remember reading a blog by an American single mother who got food stamps. She couldn't use them to buy a birthday cake for her child's birthday as unhealthy food such as cake was forbidden.

alsmutko · 30/09/2014 15:37

Loving the idea that people can just 'get a job'.
Since when has that been in the hands of the would-be employee? The most she/he can do is apply, then it's down to the employer to decide who they want.
If I was to say to a company/organisation (I always fancy working for War on Want myself): I need to 'get a job' so I'm getting a job with you, see you Monday at 9. What do you think they'll say, ok see you then?
Given that there are not enough jobs for everyone who needs one, let alone for those who don't want one or who are sick or disabled, it's not difficult to see that employers will be the ones choosing not the employee.

NB for the record, I don't need to 'get a job' as I already have three part-time jobs.