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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think pre-paid benefits cards are a stigmatizing, punitive scheme?

464 replies

ArsenicFaceCream · 29/09/2014 16:22

Just announced at the Conservative Party conference.

They will initially be 'voluntary' for claimants with addiction issues, apparently.

But of course the intention is to roll it out.

Universal Credit is going national in February so this could get interesting, given that UC will be paid to working claimants as well as those not working.

OP posts:
Smilesandpiles · 30/09/2014 17:32

I know, but I can dream, it would have made up for the abuse and snidy little comments from one neighbour over the past few years. I can see his face now Grin

fedupbutfine · 30/09/2014 17:36

Those that truly can't work won't care where their food and heat is paid for in cash or card as they know they need the welfare assistance

how do you work that out? do you think that the day you get made redundant or your husband walks out and you're a SAHM, you suddenly lose all sense of dignity and self-respect?

that aside, how would such a scheme be managed? I have a car and I would do my damndest to keep it in the event of redundancy because as a single parent, I am dashing here, there and everywhere which would be impossible without it. It also means I can travel further to work, widening the area I can realistically look for work. How would vouchers account for that? I live in a house built in the 30s with stupidly high ceilings on the seafront - my gas and electric bills in the winter are huge. How would that be dealt with compared with my friend who lives 2 miles in-land in a new build with modern insolation and some freakish family gene that means she doesn't seem to feel the cold? what happens if my home needs work done to it? or is it the case that on day one of my redundancy I should surrender my home to the State? what if I am 10 miles from the nearest supermarket that takes vouchers - and that supermarket is Waitrose which is more expensive than travelling an extra mile to Asda but you've taken my car and I can't get to Asda via public transport without it taking me 4 hours for a round trip? What if my travel budget is used up one week but my mum keels over and is in hopsital for a couple of weeks - how do I get to visit her? Does needing benefits suddenly mean I am unable to plan and budget and prioritise my own household's needs?

what would the rule book look like for these vouchers? how would any money paid in benefits be split so that I can cover all my costs? what training would benefit's staff need to go through to be able to make 'reasonable' decisions about the circumstances of the individual family? you realise that would cost way, way more than the current system in terms of manpower - I'm no economist but I suspect any saving made would be eaten up by the need to employ more staff (although job creation I suppose is a good thing?)

It is unworkable for the vast majority of people who, at some time or another, find themselves reliant on benefits in the short to medium term. It is punitive and to take into account individual household needs, would ultimately meant that many households simply go without.

Idontseeanysontarans · 30/09/2014 17:43

I would to hear from the posters their own ideas on the finer details of a scheme like this. Everybody who objects on this thread has given pretty precise reasons for their objection whereas those in agreement are a little more generalised.
So. What do you think about:
Fuel
Bus/train fairs
Buying second hand and buying at local markets
Rent or mortgage
Clothes, school uniform, shoes
Electricity and gas, phone and internet.
I know the answers will probably makes everybody else want to scream but I generally am interested - it's all very well getting frothy about those dreadful scrounger a but what are your solutions?

VSeth · 30/09/2014 17:43

I have no issue that my childcare vouchers are paid in voucher. Never crossed my mind to be annoyed. I am just grateful to get them.

When I shop I don't look at other people's payment methods and am struggling to understand the issue if people get paid on a card?

Idontseeanysontarans · 30/09/2014 17:43

I would like to hear from the posters who agree with this...
Please edit the first sentence accordingly...Blush

maddy68 · 30/09/2014 17:50

I agree with all the points regarding stigmatising etc. BUT. Someone very close to me spends all their money in the pub, the fridge is empty , and the children have nothing as their parents are alcoholics. This way at least there would be food in the fridge.

PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 17:55

Do you really think so, maddy?

Wouldn't they just be sold on the blackmarket if transferrable?

And if not transferrable, how would you get in family shopping and what would housebound people do? (Disabled people bound to be affected, as govt keeps redefining them as Not Disabled.)

fedupbutfine · 30/09/2014 18:03

This way at least there would be food in the fridge

how? if someone isn't capable of making sure their children eat properly, how is giving them money on a card, rather than cash, going to put food in the fridge?

maddy68 · 30/09/2014 18:15

Similar to the old milk tokens? Supermarkets would only exchange them for milk,they couldn't be used for anything else in the supermarket. Therefore x amount has to be spent on food. At the moment my relatives spend nothing on food, they rely on the free school meals to feed the kids in the day time and don't provide anything at night, as if they do they can't afford to go to the pub! Vouchers would ensue that food is bought Don't think the pub would accept vouchers?

PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 18:19

And excuse me if I'm cynical, but this sudden touching concern for the welfare of drug addicts and their children, overlaps with a long-dreamt-of but politically unsaleable scheme to punish the whole Benefits Scrounging™ population.

Coming from the same govt whose cuts have closed SureStart services and slashed already poor mental health provision.

So I'm not really seeing the love for the mentally ill and addicts. More handy as poster-girls for the next round of Punish the Poor.

PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 18:19

Black market, maddy.

Uptheairymountain · 30/09/2014 18:23

Are there going to be any demonstrations against this? I'm in the NW and would happily attend one.

Smilesandpiles · 30/09/2014 18:25

Not that I'm aware of.

There will be marches or something when the penny drops with the rest of the claimants who think they are safe from this, just because they are working.

GratefulHead · 30/09/2014 18:25

What PausingFlatly said ...with bells on. I a, not really seeing the love for children of addicts either....it's just the latest round of "let's crap on the poorest people from the highest point we can get".

IDS and co are hateful bastards. They care about nobody except the,selves and their rich cronies. As this thread shows they have done a good job of convincing people that anyone poor must be at fault in some way.

After the day i have had today it isn't even remotely funny,

Because after all that propaganda and poor shaming, all those claiming benefits want to out the,selves even more for a bit more of the same from those too thick to realise that it takes ONE thing to end up in the same position.

Becca19962014 · 30/09/2014 18:27

There's only one place near where I live (rural) that accepts milk tokens, and obviously they sell milk to everyone else as well so run out very fast. People sell their milk tokens to be able to buy milk elsewhere!!! Seriously it's a nightmare.

I can't see why it would be any different for people with vouchers discussed here.

maddy68 · 30/09/2014 18:28

What if they had a photo on, like a credit card. That would spoil the black market potential ?

ilovechristmas1 · 30/09/2014 18:28

I agree with all the points regarding stigmatising etc. BUT. Someone very close to me spends all their money in the pub, the fridge is empty , and the children have nothing as their parents are alcoholics. This way at least there would be food in the fridge.

it wont provide anymore for the kids,they will still suffer,and while were at it what about self respect,how will people ever learn to budget if the state is doing it for them,it will create more dependency,more control over their citizens.maybe thats the point

also if they want to save money a large % of the welfare budget is spent on pensioners,many that dont need fuel allowance,bus pass,3 bed council house etc etc

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 30/09/2014 18:29

I don't think that anybody who agrees with this would post here because they'd be jumped on.

I know that people are scared and angry about this but what are they actually going to do about it? It's all well and good to rant on a chatboard but it's impotent, isn't it?

I would like to know who the hell I'm supposed to vote for in the next election because I don't think anybody will backtrack on this as a policy. The spending cuts and freezes are there to stay. It's appalling that we have this scenario in this day and age. Propaganda may be alive and well but possibly everybody knows at least one person who is doing very nicely thank you out of the benefits system and has no intention of working EVER. It's horrendous that vulnerable people are caught up in that because the feckless will surely find a way around it to sustain their lifestyles.

So, what are people proposing to do about this and which party is worthwhile voting for?

Smilesandpiles · 30/09/2014 18:32

Hasn't stopped the black market for passports or ID's in general has it?

Anyway, I've realised something else.

Now it's coming up to winter, we can almost guarentee an announcement about gas prices rising again, yes? Isn't this the usual time that the Government quitely announce another policy along these lines?

While everyone is distracted with the gas headlines, these announcements are in the smaller articles. Just like they've done this time...Celeb weddings, ISIS and the hostage kidnappings and in the quiet corner, these payment cards for claimants, they announce this hoping that no one will care.

gobbynorthernbird · 30/09/2014 18:33

Maddy, I don't know if they still do milk tokens, but they used to be worth a packet of 10 cigs at my then local shop. I've had a junkie knock on my door offering me their B&Q vouchers that they got for decorating their house (at half face value). There will always be ways round it. High value items will be bought and resold, if the vouchers are not transferable.

Smilesandpiles · 30/09/2014 18:34

I think there'll be another policy like this announced soon, in the next few months...

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 30/09/2014 18:34

Christmas... that's not very nice. Are pensioners less vulnerable? Less deserving somehow? Smacks of looking out just for oneself a bit, I think. We should be looking out for everybody who is vulnerable, not just children and families. It's either a welfare system or it isn't and it absolutely should be means tested across the board.

PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 18:35

As soon as you make the cards non-transferable, it creates problems with family shopping and people doing shopping for the housebound.

PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 18:36

It's not a solution.

It creates huge problems.

While failing to solve the problems you're aiming at.

LeftRightCentre · 30/09/2014 18:41

They will pay billions, too, to whoever gets the contract to administer all this (one of their cronies, of course).