To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

Justice is not having one referendum after another, until you get the result you want and then stopping.

No indeed, it's not. The vote will never be seen as fair because of Cameron's silly Vow. The nationalists will simply increase in numbers and all those devolved decisions going to Scotland will be made by nationalist MPs (as at present).

At least if there was another vote the air would be clear and settled, and the result would have to be accepted. The SNP's job will have been done and dusted. As it is the SNP are furious with Cameron/Brown, and rightly so.

I changed it so I couldn't come back.
I am moving on now, promise.

The yougov one stands up better, but it doesn't have as much analysis. Can I point out that when I was referring to the Ashcroft poll and the results from it, it was in response to comments that were being posted which were about it in the first place i.e. when people made up their mind? Yes the age sampling is rubbish for 16-17 year olds. But it is more valid when considered at an aggregate level with over 1000 in the sample, than split with a sample level of 14.

Well great name choice, much better than Battenburg!

The vote will never be seen as fair because of Cameron's silly Vow.

No. You, and other hardline Yes campaigners and politicians are using it as an excuse to continue such unnecessary divisions in our society. The majority of Yes voters I spoke to or have heard in the street are quite philosophical about the result.

Feel free to continue to sow discord. It won't get you very far.

Anyway, I'm not flouncing or storming off in a huff - I have had some interesting conversations and mostly that's what I came back to say, thanks for the conversations and I'm sure I'll see you all around mumsnet, but I'm sick of the loops of conversation that are happening everywhere and I'm going to try to go back to more normal stuff until things move forward.

Nicely put and I completely understand. You were saying the same as me and have had the same reception on this thread. To those of you who want to nitpick at a genuine sentiment like this, shame on you.

I too shall try and move on but I will be back.

It is good to see so many people donating livingzuid, the mass collection on Saturday was arranged after people spontaneously filled the Square with carrier bags full of donations at a previous gathering where owners of one of the food banks made a speech.

I don't know if you were directing the last part at me as well, trixy. I'm sure no-one wants to see people living in poverty, but the Government have made it clear they aren't going to help so it's up to all of us. It's something we can do not as No or Yes voters, just concerned people. :)
That was a really nice thing for your husband to do.

Feel free to continue to sow discord. It won't get you very far.

Since when was expressing a valid opinion "sowing discord". The discord is there and it will not go away until there is another vote or a very long time has passed and everyone just forgets it naturally. The government need to be brought to book about getting involved in the way that they did. Or was Cameron right to do that - to buy people off like that? Is that what you're saying? Was that good politics Livingzuid?

A quick question for those on this thread, how would you feel about full fiscal autonomy for Scotland? As a Yes voter I'd be happy with that, as would many others. If this was given it really would kill off any ideas of independence, probably for ever.

Argh saw this question and now I feel like I want to answer. But not argue. help!
Without saying my personal opinion, there are too many people who want independence (and not 'at any cost' or for no reason other than wanting it). The idea of independence isn't going to be killed off, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you see it.

Frankie saying that Nicola Sturgeon looks like a "taller Jimmy Krankie" is disgusting and completely irrelevant in any thread, never mind one like this. Women attacking another woman's looks - regardless of whether you agree with her politics or not, she is there on her ability to do her job....why you feel the need to attack her looks is beyond me. Very sad.

Sowing discord, I like that one. Yes people have accepted the vote but are some people really naive that they think amongst that 45 % of voters who voted yes it won't suddenyly matter anymore and it will all just go away?

I have said so many times I don't care. So do carry on. I have my popcorn out and have yet to see an argument put forward by you that makes me want to do something about it apart from point out how tiresome it is getting.

And tinkerball No of course not. There has always been around 25-30% of the Yes vote that has always wanted this. Please note I said hardline. There are however ways and means to get there. I am merely suggesting this is not the way to go about it. There are other threads on MN with some sensible and thoughtful discussion.

Tinkerball, you're supposed to 'move on'. Go on, move on! Only the most significant vote you have ever taken ever, just give up now and stand by while Dave Nick and Ed reorganise the UK within 6 months and make way for Scotland to have no say in the lives of the people that govern their 'Kingdom'.

I should have added from both sides with regards the discussion.

numanoid that is great and thank you for pointing it out in the first place. Some things go beyond politics.

I keep typing and deleting responses because other people are saying it better and far more eloquently than me.

I voted no, I am relieved at the vote, that's about as strong as I'd go, but I don't celebrate it. I'm thoroughly fed up with the wrangling and going round in circles as well - and I appreciate all the contributions, even if I don't agree with what people are saying.

My hope is that we all accept the vote, and move forward, all of us together, because I love Scotland - it's my adopted home - and I hate this division.

No Numanoid it wasn't aimed at you. It was probably mostly aimed at a certain member of my family who has made those accusations to me, while happily accepting an online shop from me every month plus hundreds of pounds and other practical help. I can't say what I really think to her so just venting it here.

DaughterDilemma - I am the only person who commented on what tabulahrasa said, before you posted saying, "...To those of you who want to nitpick at a genuine sentiment like this, shame on you..." - so I can only assume that was aimed at me.

When I said I should do the same as tabulah is doing, and that hers were wise words, I was being entirely genuine, so I am offended at you calling this nitpicking.

Some things go beyond politics.

Exactly, there is plenty we can all do!

That's rubbish trixy, more than a little hypocritical of her. :( I don't understand using people's vote against them - if you think someone is selfish say so, no need to tag the way they voted on to it (although you don't sound selfish at all!)

She's just lashing out. She has a genuine gripe about some of Eestminster's policies and sees most of her family voting no as betraying her. There's a bigger picture though and we believed she and others would be worse off with independence.

DH and I make a point of going out of our way to help others, I'd like to think we are not guilty of what she's accused us of .

Daughter I really don't want to add to any discord, but I really don't think going through another campaign and vote as things are now is going to help. It will confirm most people in their views, annoy lots of people, and delay the process of getting on with running Scotland (Holyrood) and the UK (Westminster). I think everyone should be taking a deep breath. Personally I think politicians should be having an enforced week of silence. Lots of people poured a lot of energy, enthusiasm and emotion into the campaigns. Now we need to deal with the result, not just have a re-run.

I get that you're not happy about the potential implications for the rest of the UK. I feel the best way to deal with that is to find a way to feed into the debate - lobby political parties, email your MP, maybe join a political party if you haven't already, maybe join a community based group. Not get Scotland to go through another referendum when the posters from the last one are still up and the grafitti hasn't yet been washed off.

All the parties had been promising new powers since the summer, but the three parties disagreed about what they should be and it was frequently criticised that voting 'no' meant that you were just crossing your fingers and hoping that they'd sort it out. So Gordon Brown proposed a timetable to stop it being kicked into the long grass if there was a no vote, and the three UK leaders signed up to it (I think the three Holyrood ones did too, but can't remember if that was to the Vow or not).

So many people voting no but still wanting more devolution made their minds up some time ago before the vow. I realise that the parties were a little late with the first step, but I'm sure it was sorted the very next day. You might call that the breaking of the vow because yes are determined to jump on them as soon as they appear to screw up, but most people I think don't really care whether it was signed on Friday or Saturday, they just wanted to be sure it was going to happen.

I still believe it will happen but even if it takes longer than expected, I'm happy with my vote. The risks and likelihood of Yes being wrong about the currency/EU/Nato/etc were much greater and the consequences far more severe IMO. YMMV.

It's great to hear the food banks are not being forgotten now that they aren't being used by politicians to make points.

As for devolution/changes to politics in England, I think Cameron is wrong to try and rush changes through. I think that the people of England have to be consulted about this. As much as it's great for some decisions to be made locally, there is also a benefit to being able to have national services that there isn't a postcode lottery for. Often the whole is greater than a sum of its parts. E.g. with the postal service, being able to post a letter to anywhere in the country for the same price. You can see the damage caused to rural businesses and people by huge delivery surcharges.

I'm not sure about how far devolution in Scotland should go, for similar reasons. There is clearly an appetite for more powers and I think some may make sense, but I don't want to become an entirely different country to the rUK in all but name either.

OOAOML I get your point about not wanting the upheaval of another referendum and I do agree with you. I think I am cautious that it sends the wrong message to the Nationalists and that the backlash will get deeper and stronger.

Personally I think politicians should be having an enforced week of silence.

Oh if only they had an enforced week of silence during the week before the vote. The gov will be very happy there is all this discussion now because it's Labour conference week so they will have to compete for news space. OTOH the politicos will be busy discussing it all off the record which might also be a good thing.

Tinker I agree with you re your comments to Frankie. can't wait for the predictable demonisation of Nicola based on her looks rather than her actually policies/actions.

This will be in the same vein as Alex Salmond was painted. Many no voters I spoke to said they 'hated' him but when asked couldn't articulate why. At least now he can defend himself...

I don't think you are trixy, people can't be judged on the way they voted. Hopefully the bad feeling coming from some members of both sides will die down sooner rather than later.

On a separate note, I think we should stop using Nationalist as if it's a bad thing. I know a few people who identify as Nationalists, and the negative connotations now associated with the word are mindblowing. Plus, I don't think every Yes voter can be branded a Scottish Nationalist, as every No voter can't be called a British Nationalist.

Any answer to my earlier post, DaughterDilemma?