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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

999 replies

siiiiiiiiigh · 21/09/2014 14:09

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

OP posts:
WhatWouldFreddieDo · 24/09/2014 11:42

feck, massive x-post, so no doubt you'll read my input as yet more patronising tosh from the winning side.

trixymalixy · 24/09/2014 11:43

Wah ha ha!! I can't be the only one laughing at the irony of a Yes voter being concerned about the destabilising effect of extra powers they didn't vote for on the English. Brilliant!

DaughterDilemma · 24/09/2014 11:46

Gerrymandering refers to the drawing up of constituency boundaries to disenfranchise particular groups.

And supporting and encouraging a division of the UK which ensures you disenfranchise particular groups (SNP/Labour voters) exactly is the same thing. Except this isn't constituency boundaries it's national boundaries.

DaughterDilemma · 24/09/2014 11:48

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the campaign, the whole set-up of the referendum, the last-minute panics from WM, it's done now.

If only it were done now. In England it's only just begun and will cause massive disruption because of the rushed manner in which they want to move it all forward.

DaughterDilemma · 24/09/2014 11:50

no doubt you'll read my input as yet more patronising tosh from the winning side

No not necessarily, I've still (just) got full mental capacity.

BakewellSlice · 24/09/2014 11:50

And this disruption can be laid at the door of no voters..Confused

DaughterDilemma · 24/09/2014 11:51

You're really having a difficult time accepting the voice of the Scottish electorate, it seems.

Not that either.

SirChenjin · 24/09/2014 11:53

Daughter - you are factually incorrect. The results of the referendum are in absolutely no way a form of gerrymandering. The SNP are pushing for things to move forward - inflammatory posturing from AS about holding feet to fire (which is actually a pretty horrific description when you think about it, but it's a good soundbite I suppose)

You are beginning to sound like you're desperately clutching at straws in your reluctance to accept the voice of the majority of the Scottish electorate.

area52 · 24/09/2014 11:53

frankie so the personal attacks on Nicola have started now... how predictable. typical nasty understand tactics as usual.

lem73 · 24/09/2014 11:54

No gerrymandering began in Northern Ireland where constituencies were drawn up to weaken the ability of the Catholic population to elect MPs or councillors who would be favourable to them. Please stop using that term.
Voting in an election and not getting the result you voted for is called democracy.
Excluding the over 60s from a future referendum IS disenfranchisement.
You lost. Get over it.
Who is supporting/encouraging division? The SNP are the only ones using divisive language.

DaughterDilemma · 24/09/2014 11:54

And this disruption can be laid at the door of no voters..confused

No I'm not laying anything at the door of No voters because they didn't know what they were voting for because Cameron et al stepped in with the Vow.

But I would say that if it wasn't for the Vow, we would have a far more stable UK over the next 10 years. Yes, a shake-up is needed, but let's follow the democratic process please and put constitutional changes through parliament with an electorate that voted for those changes.

area52 · 24/09/2014 11:54

*underhand

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/09/2014 11:56

The Vow undermined nothing. It was an offer on the table

An offer that was made

a) after the postal votes had already gone out, and in the purdah period
b) an offer of a vow that is not being kept

With regards to vote rigging, dodgy counts etc there is a very comprehensive debunking on Wings wingsoverscotland.com/our-man-on-the-scene/

Behoove · 24/09/2014 11:57

area one person gave an opinion, freely out in the open. Hardly 'underhand tactics'

Timcook · 24/09/2014 11:57

Can someone explain why the Vow was made if it was always obvious (it was according to the polls) that the No vote would win? Why was that promise made? Its put Cameron in a really difficult position within his own party. It makes no sense to me why it would happen? Its also given the 45% who did vote Yes ammunition to fire when its not carried out. I really don't get it. Anyone?

OOAOML · 24/09/2014 11:58

There are and have been personal attacks on all the main political figures in this debate. It isn't just NS. It has been one of the more depressing elements, from both sides. I've read stuff that is just vile from both sides.

BakewellSlice · 24/09/2014 11:58

But Daughter you were all for rupture of the Union last week. I can't keep up.

DaughterDilemma · 24/09/2014 11:58

You lost. Get over it.

I didn't vote. Just analysing the aftermath and wondering why all the No voters want to do is pat each other on the back when what has happened is beyond any constitutional changes that have happened before - which will not only destabilise England and Wales but will have a massive knock-on effect on Scotland over the years. But if you want to see other commentators as sulky Yes voters, go ahead.

SirChenjin · 24/09/2014 11:59

People voted No for a reason. Your frustration should be directed at the Yes campaign who consistently failed to win a majority in the polls (apart from one) and consistently failed to answer the big questions. End of. There's no conspiracy, there's no gerrymandering, there's no vote rigging, there's no unkept vow. You didn't get the result you wanted, Scotland voted No (again) - time to accept the facts, and move on.

DaughterDilemma · 24/09/2014 12:02

Daughter you were all for rupture of the Union last week. I can't keep up.

I was, and would still support it (if I had the opportunity). The rupture of the union is a massively different thing to what seems to be happening to the UK now, post-Vow. One small country making its own decisions works, around the world, usually well. Two small countries making some decisions alongside one very big country with different tax rules and policies and political procedures is a recipe for a disaster.

Timcook · 24/09/2014 12:02

SirChenjin-what do you mean theres no unkept vow? I thought there was a missed first deadline?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 24/09/2014 12:02

I have seen an analysis (can't remember where - sorry) that says that, of the 10% who were undecided in the last days of the campaign, about a quarter were influenced to vote No by the promise of extra powers from Westminster.

So, assuming everything else to be equal, if the promise had not been made, the No vote would have fallen to about 52-53% - still a majority.

DaughterDilemma · 24/09/2014 12:04

You didn't get the result you wanted, Scotland voted No (again) - time to accept the facts, and move on.

Groan.

OOAOML · 24/09/2014 12:05

More powers were proposed during the summer (June I think). At the time it was suggested these would be dependent on the general election results - I thought that was wrong, as a general election should be fought on a range of issues. Nearer the time the political leaders re-stated their commitment, and Gordon Brown proposed a timetable. None of the above influenced me, or many other No voters, they may have influenced others. They may have pushed some waverers to Yes. Certainly as a No voter I cringed when Cameron and Milliband opened their mouths towards the end of the campaign. But then I cringe at a lot of politicians.

Whatever - we are where we are and we need to move on. If areas in the rest of the UK want devolution then that should be addressed. I think we need a UK wide constitutional convention. And we need to take time to get it right. That might mean a limited range of powers to Scotland now to meet the timetable, and a more extensive review of how the whole UK is best run (and how the people in various areas want it to be run) that takes longer. It shouldn't be a knee jerk reaction.

SirChenjin · 24/09/2014 12:06

I know, it must be very hard for you to smile through that, but groaning doesn't help. The Scottish people spoke, as Mr Salmond said we would Grin

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