To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

And agree with SC, the Yes voters were not given the information to make an informed choice either, which is the main reason that the yes side didn't win.

You can keep rehashing it all you like, but the simple truth is that the Yes side did not make a good enough case for independence. All questions and concerns were met with cries of scaremongering and calling people fears. Not the way to win people over.

*feart

No offence intended by that last comment, those of you who voted obviously did so from the heart. I just can't get my head round the arrogance of the politicians to think that people could be bought like this, at the expense of the whole of the UK and at the expense of undermining this vote. They should know better.

Now they want to reneg on the Barnet formula, Cameron's saying it is conditional, to be removed or adapted as more powers are devolved.

The Barnett formula is known to be flawed, I don't see the problem with changing it.

You can keep rehashing it all you like, but the simple truth is that the Yes side did not make a good enough case for independence.

You won't be able to prove that unless there is another vote with both sides setting out their plans side by side.

Daughter - please, stop this. There was no gerrymandering involved, nor was it a flawed vote, and it's patronising and insulting to have my vote accused of such things. It was a fair and just referendum - indeed, the Yes campaign promoted it as one of the most exciting times in Scotland's history prior to the result.

The No side won. Leave it at that.

The Barnett formula is known to be flawed, I don't see the problem with changing it.

The point is that he said it would remain intact. He lied. Politics should be about integrity not lies.

Rubbish, you need to get the chip off your shoulder about the last minute vow and open your eyes. The polls were showing a no lead all along.

If the case for independence had been good enough, then more than 50% would have voted yes. I agree that they probably shouldn't have done a last minute "ooh extra powers" but given that only one poll had shown Yes ahead anyway then it seems unlikely it would have been a Yes victory even without it.

It was a fair and just referendum

It would have been without the Vow. The Vow has completely undermined it and I think it's wrong and patronising and insulting (to use your terms) to silence anybody who questions it.

Predictably sturgeon is up for snp leader.

Can't stand her. She looks like a taller jimmy krankie.

DH has met her a few times through work and said she's horrid.

it seems unlikely it would have been a Yes victory even without it.

It seems unlikely but we will never know and this vote will always be viewed as flawed.

But that's not actually my main concern, my main concern is that Cameron has ridden roughshod over the democratic process, the behaviour of politicians in dictatorships, not the United Kingdom.

If there was considerable devolution of tax raising powers e.g. all income tax or corporation tax raised in Scotland was the responsibility of the Scottish Government then Barnett would need to evolve to account for the changes.

Daughter you seem to be conveniently forgetting Salmond's lies over the supposed legal advice they took over the EU.

Stat That's as may be but Cameron didn't explain that at the outset, said BF would remain intact. Why are people trying to twist what happened into being acceptable just because you voted No?

I thought it was the time for clear post Vote analysis not continued justification for whichever way you voted.

I didn't justify my vote? I said if there is a massive change in the structure/powers then Barnett would need to adapt. That's not a justification of my vote.

To be fair I should get off here because I don't really care a lot for what happened to the voters, I care about the fact that 85% of the UK (the English) plus the Welsh are going to have massive destabilisation due to constitutional changes that none of us voted for.

I can't be the only person on Mumsnet who thinks that's wrong.

The Vow undermined nothing. It was an offer on the table - people could choose to accept it or refuse it. If the case for independence had been better thought out, with details and figures and plans, then perhaps they might have won. As it was, they didn't - and they were never in the lead, if the polls were to be believed.

And no-one is attempting to 'silence' you. My goodness, how melodramatic.

How can anyone use gerrymandering in the context of a referendum. Gerrymandering refers to the drawing up of constituency boundaries to disenfranchise particular groups. It cannot be applied in a direct vote like a referendum. People are just throwing around any old accusation because they can't get over it. Move on.

She looks like a taller jimmy krankie.

Ugh.

People are just throwing around any old accusation because they can't get over it. Move on.

No they are not. Read my post, think it though, don't patronise. Thank you.

My goodness, how melodramatic.

No not really, telling it like it is. Read the thread, look at how doubters are treated.

but a Yes vote wouldn't have caused huge disruption and destabilisation to rUK?

Look, I understand how much this meant to the Yes side just be knowing how much it meant to me on the No side, but to focus on the Vow having made all the difference is just wrong, imho, and is not going to help anyone.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the campaign, the whole set-up of the referendum, the last-minute panics from WM, it's done now.

No, you're not telling it like it is. No-one has been silenced.

You're really having a difficult time accepting the voice of the Scottish electorate, it seems.