To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

HappyScot hand on heart, I have never met a Dutch person who insisted, after being corrected, that Scotland was part of England, or that I was English. Last time I spoke to a Dutch person, last week, they looked over at my newspaper, saw it was in English and remarked "Boring England". When I looked up and didn't say anything, they said unprompted, "Or maybe you come from Scotland?"

That's the sort of thing that happens to me. I can't explain it.

Tabularahasa we've been over this before, but basically the Scottish Government has more centrist policies in some respects than Westminster. It simply concentrates them in Edinburgh and the Central Belt, and I'm guessing for some parts of Scotland that might as well be Westminster. And when you take into account the controlling policies, and I use that word again, deliberately, such as centralising the police force, routinely arming the police without any form of public debate, child guardians and many other things, I wouldn't think of it as being a particularly good example of government.

I would really like to see a written constitution and a constitutional court in Scotland. After all, its legal system is based on Roman law, like Germany and France which both have one.

Have enough referendums until you get the answer you want? Until everyone else stops voting and just gives up? Until you ruin the economy?

Again, this is something that could be dealt with in a written constitution, so you don't have this uncertainty, backed up by a constitutional court.

Pretty much what HappyScot and Cambio said re another referendum. This isn't a vote we should be having every 5 years until eventually enough people get fed up and agree just so the endless wrangling will stop!

SirChenjin - I was happy enough with what I found out when I researched myself about what were more likely outcomes than those stated in the white paper, I went into it with the assumption are going to present an unrealistic optimistic view of anything while campaigning... As I've already said, on this thread, today.

I'm not arguing with what other people thought about the white paper or the outcome of the vote.

I'm objecting to the idea that yes voters wanted an unrealistic left wing utopia where everyone thinks the same way...

Still waiting to hear what you meNt by taking my taxes Chelsy

Tinkerbell Still waiting to hear what you meNt by taking my taxes Chelsy

You'll be waiting a long time, until you explain yourself a bit better then.

tabulahrasa - In which case your statement "Scottish independence would have given more Scottish voters a stronger voice, not less" might have been better suffixed or prefixed with 'imo'.

I would continue to allow referendums while as sizeable proportion of the electorate wanted them - Really? Continual referendums until one side gets the result they want? This not only has a hugely negative impact on investment and so on in a country, but it also doesn't exactly smack of democracy.

AS knew the risks of a referendum. He called one. He lost. End of. Now it's time for him to be magnanimous in defeat and stop all this ridiculous posturing.

but it also doesn't exactly smack of democracy.

I'm sorry - I can't see why it is undemocratic A minority SNP unilaterally declaring independence - now that would be undemocratic. But if the majority of democratically elected representatives support another referendum, why would it be undemocratic to have one?

Chelsy - I don't think the Scottish government is a particularly good example of government either, but IMO part of the problem is that with limited powers they don't actually have as much accountability to voters...

But more specifically what I was objecting to was being told what yes voters want, on a thread with yes voters on it who hadn't said any of those things.

Now personally I would love a left wing utopia, but I'm not stupid, I do know that that is not what would happen or in fact what other people would want.

I definitely don't want everyone to think the same way

But I would like people to not assume what other people think.

"tabulahrasa - In which case your statement "Scottish independence would have given more Scottish voters a stronger voice, not less" might have been better suffixed or prefixed with 'imo'."

Probably, but I'm on a phone and lose whole words, nevermind trains of thought, lol

Because we were given assurances that we would not have another referendum in a generation by the FM. Or are you saying he was actually lying?

One side does not get to continually hold the country to ransom until it gets the result it wants. If you can't see how unreasonable that it, and how negatively that would impact on the stability, investment and wealth of Scotland then I'm surprised.

The so-called "45" have published a boycott list, of Scottish based companies, brands, businesses and media organisations they will be boycotting because they "scared" Scotland in the run up to the Referendum.

It includes Asda, the BBC, Sainsbury, Standard Life, Marks and Spencer, Iceland, John Lewis, Barrhead Travel, B&Q, RBS and Clydesdale Bank, Tunnocks, the Daily Mail, the Daily Express, The Guardian, The Scotsman, the Sunday Post, The Daily Record, The Daily Telegraph, BP, Shell and many others.

How silly. Wonder how long that'll last then.

Really?

Slightly unamused to see an MP retweeting this:

"if the SNP get 30 of scotlands seats in WM next year they can legally declare independence without a referendum #YES #VoteSNP"

I know it's a retweet but that still implies a level of agreement with it.

I know That made me snort too... The only one of those that might have any impact is all the folk cancelling their TV licences, but even that is doubtful. There are far more effective ways to achieve what we want.

Oh no, it might get too busy in my local Aldi.

What did Tunnocks do?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that list.

How about simply recognising the will and voice of the majority of Scots Fine?

Full list from one of the Facebook pages:

Most importantly: The Labour Party
Baxters,
Tunnock's
Mackies ice cream
Distiller William Grant
Michelle Mone's - Ultimo bra
BP
M&S
ASDA
Waitrose
Sainsbury’s
John Lewis
Barrhead Travel
B&Q
HSBC
RBS
Standard Life
Screwfix
Clydesdale Bank
BBC
Usdaw
Daily Record
The Scotsman
Daily/Sunday Express
Daily/Sunday Mirror
Sunday Post
CWU (communication workers union)

Chesly, you really are quite annoying. Sorry. But you are.

you made an issue out of the Scottish/English/Dutch thing - not me. I only replied agreeing to something LivingZuid said about how foreign countries view Scotland as part of England. You were hellbent on proving me wrong. You knew Dutch, Belgian and German people better than me, you even spoke the language a bit. Whoopy do, I work in Dutch daily, whether I am in the UK or NL or the US. Yet you go on to astound me with your superior linguistic skills by telling the phrase "Verenigd Koninkrijk" would prove your point if only I understood the language. Your superior knowledge was something I should bow down to. When it was pretty obvious you really had nothing much more than a passing acquaintance with the country. Then a few German expats came on board and agreed with me. Seriously, you need to get a grip. You won't beat me on NL, your passing knowledge of the country and it's people, language and culture is admirable, I am sure. But my Dutch is better than my English. I have more Dutch family than British. I work for a Dutch company. I probably know more about NL than I do about Scotland and the UK. I don't need telling by someone who reads Lonely Planet or Trip Advisor or Wikipedia that I can't refer to NL as Holland. Please do yourself a favour and drop this one.

And please let me, as a proud Scottish and British woman, decide for myself if I object to being called English. That is my decision to make. Not yours. I doubt since you're not even Scottish if you even get why I object to it.

But please just drop this, it has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and it is frankly boring and just detracts from the topic we should be discussing.

I regret not just ignoring you in the first place.

They are utterly bonkers, aren't they. Thank God these people are not now influencing the Govt of an inde Scotland.

Oooh Mackies... I could eat a whole tub of Mackies...

.....And you can eat a whole tub of Mackies since you voted No Santana

So all you "45" supporters out there, if you run out of petrol or diesel, I expect you to walk home, or get out your jerry can and walk to the nearest independent or Tesco petrol station and then walk back to your car and fill it up.

Even if it happens 70 miles from the nearest one. Even if it happens in that bit between Lairg and Durness. Put your beliefs before your comfort!

I haven't been following this thread, so I don't know if this point has been discussed already. I read in today's paper that AS stated that there were 'many routes' to independence. Basically he stated that the Scottish Parliament could reach the point where it could unilaterally declare independence without consulting the people through a referendum. This is only a few days after the majority of people rejected independence. Apparently from this option being completely undemocratic, how can you claim to love your country so much you want it to be independent, yet you are willing to completely railroad over what your fellow countrymen want. What foundation is that for a new state? What kind of country does he want to build? It really troubles me, coming after the allegations of bullying of academics etc and demanding the sacking of journalists.
Also why should voting for the SNP be taken as a vote for independence. Some people vote SNP because they are happy with their performance in government.