To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

To be honest I'm quite staggered at what I've read on here now !
I would have thought those who voted no would have at least been happy with result and have a little ounce of sympathy for the yes voters who are understandably upset. If the shoe was on the other foot and all that. Also why be so scared of another referendum? Obviously it will have the same result. Or has the mood really changed in 4 days?
And in particular to Chelsey - not really a criticism, more a really ??
Why would you move now you got what you wanted ? What a waste of a vote !

But who can be bothered getting worked up about such things? I mean if someone makes an honest mistake, you just overlook it.

If its your relatives or inlaws doing it repeatedly, that might be a bit annoying. But I would tend to suspect they were doing that more as an inlaw antagonistic thing, rather than a national trend. ie they are doing it deliberately. Not "being able to remember" details about an incomer, despite being corrected, about a newcomer into a family, is a bit of a known trait with some inlaws...

Can you imagine the storm that would erupt if "the 45" were No and we were behaving in this way?

Frankly. No. I can't. If the ball had been on the other foot........ perish the thought. Traitor I think would be the word du jour.

Might be outing myself here but our local labour office got set on fire last night

Why would you move now you got what you wanted ? What a waste of a vote !

DH applied for a job abroad because we were planning what we could do to get out if there was a Yes vote. We didn't expect him to get an interview so quickly, nor for it to go so well. Its much better paid too and the industry is bigger than in Scotland so more opportunities. And now we think it might be a good idea to move because theres still not much certainty about what will happen in Scotland in the future.

I'm not really Scottish and not that bothered about which country I live in. I've lived in several different countries. I like diversity. I enjoy moving around. I see it as something positive.

Lucky i have plenty of sympathy as i know a lot of friends and family who are bitterly disappointed. However my patience and sympathy is running out fast with all the accusations of vote rigging, being called shameful and greedy, the divisive 45 groups and calls to take independence without another referendum.

and there's a 45 march planned for the town :(

Taking your taxes? Wtf?

Chelsy, you started all this yesterday when I mentioned DUTCH NEWSREADERS and Dutch people in general getting it wrong last week. My inlaws don't get it wrong, not after I explained to them in the beginning what the union was, and how significant an issue it is for most. Where on earth are you getting this inlaw thing from?

Just admit, like four other poster with more than just mere passing ties to Euro countries, that often the mistake is made by referring to Scottish people as being English. You said that was rubbish and that it never happened and you has such good knowledge of Holland and Germany, which you obviously don't or you'd know this was common. Now you are changing that to "why get annoyed about it, what does it matter". Can I assume from that, that you at least admit that it happens?

And again, I am not annoyed by it. Discussing something does not mean annoyance.

Maybe being called English doesn't bother you as you're not Scottish? I have no idea. I don't know a single Scot who wouldn't correct a foreigner if said foreigner told them they were English. Correcting someone doesn't automatically mean annoyance.

What I would love to see, but perhaps it's too soon, is Yes and No voters or Yes and No politicians saying, 'Well, OK, it was a No to independence, but for god's sake let's take the debate to Westminster - let's come up with a plan together that they have to take seriously'

The continuing divisive talk that's going on this week is just playing into Wm's hands.

Chelsy your level of posts pre referendum were exceptionally huge!

Do you think that you have the monopoly on working hard, paying tax and all the rest of it?

'Some of us' manage all that and have a family and get involved in other things.

Also why be so scared of another referendum?

Maybe you have the appetite for this every 4 years. I don't. I doubt business and the markets have either.

In the middle of all this there has been a major EU wide reform of the Common Agricultural Policy. Scotland, England and Wales and NI are permitted to make their own rules on how they will apply the new rules and deal with the reformed subsidies. England and Wales and NI have done this a while ago.

It's a mess in Scotland. No one in the industry has certainty as this was parked until after the referendum. This affects my industry sector. I'm sure it's not the only part of day to day running the country which has had to play second fiddle.

Agreed wwfd. This talk of continuing pushing for independence worries me (bear with me here) because it becomes all consuming. A central argument for independence is that WM acts against the best interests of the Scottish people. If let's say "the vow" was followed up on the how seriously would the SNP who will be in power until at least 2016 work with WM to make this work or will they always hold back so they tell us how WM Screws us over. That is not very well worded. I guess what I'm trying to say is it would be good if for a while we could put this on the back burner for a while and work together big within Scotland and within the UK to try and solve the problems in society. Salmonds comments on other ways to seek independence do nothing but antagonise

What happened to the thread...? :(

frankie I'm sorry to hear that, about the building and the march. Obviously moving on and reconciling is not on the agenda for some folk.

I popped back on FB today for a wee look, not posting. It seems to have calmed down but think I'll be staying off for the time being. Have to say, I'm not missing it too much.

I couldnt bear another referendum. i really don't have the energy for it.

Cambio you said it. I absolutely do not want to go through this again in 5 years or even 10 years. I realise what I personally think doesn't come into it but I suspect an awful lot of folk feel the same.

I think, unfortunately, there are a category of people who want independence for Scotland at any cost and hell mend the consequences.

Excuse all typos.

All this talk from AS about independence through other methods could seriously damage the SNP. The 45 are trying to ensure an SNP majority through tactical voting at next election which is what it is but there are 55% of the country who are probably equally as likely to vote tactically to keep them out. And the SNP did lose by significant amounts in its "heartlands"

Also, YY to how destructive a continuing push for independence/another referendum would be.

If pp and businesses can't see an end to uncertainty it will have a terrible effect on investment, new businesses, etc etc.

And there's no reason why we can't have many of the fairer policies in a devolved Scotland, or adopt a more federalist set up in the UK. It's just the WM establishment will do anything in the power to resist it.

"For me, a lot of it is very political - you want Scotland to be this left wing utopia, where everyone will be the same. And its not, and never likely to be."

"For me, its all about wanting to control people (here their thoughts and opinions) and intolerance;"

Sorry, but what?

You think that's what yes voters wanted? An imaginary left wing utopia intolerant of difference?

Really?

How would decentralising government do that then?

Yes there was a lot of talk of left wing policies and Scotland being more left wing on certain matters...but a lot of that is to do with how the democracy in the UK is set up - conservative voters for instance are not represented well in Scotland on a national level.

Scottish independence would have given more Scottish voters a stronger voice, not less.

A stronger voice to do what? Ruin the country with an ill thought out, scantily detailed White Paper that did nothing to address the major issues that are actually required to run a country?

Having a vision is all very well - my teenage son has a lovely vision of driving a brand new car, for example - but unless you have the details to back up that vision and can communicate that clearly as opposed to vaguely waving your hand and criticising people who question 'the vision' then you'll get nowhere. As has just been demonstrated.

Also why be so scared of another referendum?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this one.

is there something wrong with me to want the democratic process to be respected? To give people what they voted for? To accept that the people made a choice. An informed choice. And that should be respected by all.

How many referendums would you allow before you said enough is enough, and got down to giving the people what they voted for?

How many referendums would you allow before you said enough is enough, and got down to giving the people what they voted for?

I would continue to allow referendums while as sizeable proportion of the electorate wanted them. Obviously this would require a majority of Yes groups in Holyrood (who would have been democratically voted in) this is a fairly good gauge of interest. I guess if people are worried about protest votes the parties could ballot their members on whether they want another referendum.

If the Yes parties do not get a majority in the Holyrood parliament obviously there is not enough appetite for further independence referenda, and therefore none would be held.

Seems pretty democratic to me? If you dont want another referendum vote Tory//LibDems/Labour if you do vite SNP/Green/SSP etc...