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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

999 replies

siiiiiiiiigh · 21/09/2014 14:09

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

OP posts:
tabulahrasa · 22/09/2014 15:05

Yes...but I was asked that in the European elections as well, I remember because I went - what for? It's not any use afterwards is it?

They said , well it is yours and some people like to have them back.

I understand people wanting them more for the referendum, for people voting yes of course they might want it...but whichever way you were voting and whichever outcome it was going to be - a democratic referendum on independence was a pretty big deal.

But a big standard EU election? Lol

tabulahrasa · 22/09/2014 15:06

Bog - not big

SirChenjin · 22/09/2014 15:13

Ah OK, wasn't just me!

OneNight · 22/09/2014 15:20

They weren't asking anyone at my polling station if they wanted the cards back but were just handing them back immediately to voters.

Secretblackandmidnighthag · 22/09/2014 15:47

I suppose however bog standard an election seems, it's always someone's first time and they might want a record of that. The first election I got to vote in was the 1997 GE - quite exciting stuff! Glad it wasn't some council thing Smile

tabulahrasa · 22/09/2014 15:52

Oh I can understand asking for it back, especially if it's the first time you've voted.

But I was surprised at it happening often enough in an EU election that they were asking everyone is more what I meant.

That EU election was my DS's first vote Smile he was 18 just days beforehand.

StatisticallyChallenged · 22/09/2014 16:52

Mine was just handed back immediately too.

wigglybeezer · 22/09/2014 16:59

Secretblackandmidnighthag, there was a website where you could do that once, I came out as slightly to the left of Paddy Ashdown!

PhaedraIsMyName · 22/09/2014 17:14

Did the SNP manifesto prior to the last election have a specific statement there would be a referendum if they had a majority?

Or was this pushed though simply because they had a majority?

grovel · 22/09/2014 17:18

It was in the manifesto.

SirChenjin · 22/09/2014 17:25

And was home rule/unilateral independence/plans to whinge about certain voters letting Scotland down in the event of a No vote also in the manifesto?

grovel · 22/09/2014 17:29

There was no need to state the obvious.

ChelsyHandy · 22/09/2014 17:48

McFox Amazing Chelsy, that's some extrapolation. I point out that every post you write simply drips with self interest and you not only confirm that, but add a big dose of paranoia too. Might I suggest that spend more time listening to what people are actually saying? It might go some way to helping you get those brilliant jobs in other countries of which you speak.

Just getting back to this now because I've been at work. I think I'm self defeating if I dare to suggest that not everyone is obsessed with politics, nor do they have the luxury of debating them all day nor want to spend their spare time doing it too. Fair enough if that's for you, but I'm not buying into this really quite strange argument that not to want to do is "selfish".

For me, a lot of it is very political - you want Scotland to be this left wing utopia, where everyone will be the same. And its not, and never likely to be. But you want to impose your strongly political views on everyone else, and call them names, when they don't agree.

A lot of this is too politicised for me. I would say do something more empirical rather than trying to base it all on ideology and political wrangling - draw up a proper written constitution for the UK or at least Scotland (no plans by the SNP for that of course), set up a Constitutional Court for when individual's rights are infringed (again nothing from the SNP). This is what is done in Germany and France and many other countries. That way if something like City of Edinburgh Council infringes your rights, you have some avenue of proper redress, unlike the totally ineffective Ombudsmen.

What I am of course talking about is vertical as opposed to purely horizontal effectiveness - giving individuals rights as opposed to just states. If this is selfish, then I would suggest you want to live in a society where everything is controlled by the State, and that's not for me.

And if you are complaining about the Dutch confusing England with the UK, then I hope you never use the word "Holland".

ChelsyHandy · 22/09/2014 17:51

SirChenjin And was home rule/unilateral independence/plans to whinge about certain voters letting Scotland down in the event of a No vote also in the manifesto?

For me, its all about wanting to control people (here their thoughts and opinions) and intolerance; GB in his speech before the Referendum pointed out that Scotland in the 16th and 17th Centuries was, with the advantage of looking back, a rather intolerant place to live in. England was seen as fairer and more open. Of course I realise if you mention the words "English", "David Cameron" or "Conservative" to some Scots, it automatically produces a certain response, and you cannot have a rational discussion without being very careful about which vocabulary you are permitted to use.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 22/09/2014 17:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 22/09/2014 18:03

In fact you and Pheadra 'I have a friend who' (insert fulfilling antidote here) are like dead weights here. Stuck I some odd rhetoric. We get it, you were right. Well done. But what you doing here if you have no interest in engaging further in a ysefu

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 22/09/2014 18:04

Whoops...

Useful conversation about the future.

ChelsyHandy · 22/09/2014 18:15

Rita In fact you and Pheadra 'I have a friend who' (insert fulfilling antidote here) are like dead weights here. Stuck I some odd rhetoric. We get it, you were right. Well done. But what you doing here if you have no interest in engaging further in a ysefu

Wow. It never ceases to amuse me just how worked up some people can get if you dare to say you are leaving Scotland. Its like they take it as a personal insult or something.

Not everyone is obsessed by politics, or what passes for politics on internet sites. I should imagine rather a lot of No voters, and indeed Yes voters, are the same. They will have jobs where you cannot post on the internet while at work and in which its not a very good idea to post some of the more radical stuff I've seen of late on FB, because it might come to the attention of someone at their work, and not be seen as very good for their employer's reputation.

But I suspect this line of thought is a little too sensible for you, and too practical.

The fact is, many of us have jobs, and quite time consuming, tiring jobs at that. We don't have time or inclination to "engage" beyond what we are doing already. We don't want to be involved in some ongoing constant revolution. We just want to lead peaceful lives. I honestly don't know how some people have so much time to post. I think leading up to the Referendum you might have been given some leeway, but it is really such a waste of time constantly posting on the internet and I for one really want to get away from this bad habit and back to real life, because its becoming quite a negative thing now.

In fact you and Pheadra 'I have a friend who' (insert fulfilling antidote here) are like dead weights here. Stuck I some odd rhetoric. We get it, you were right. Well done. But what you doing here if you have no interest in engaging further in a ysefu

Aye, but you're happy enough to take our taxes.

Secretblackandmidnighthag · 22/09/2014 18:16

No way would I want a written constitution.

My ex was Dutch and he used 'Holland'. Hmm

Secretblackandmidnighthag · 22/09/2014 18:17

Chelsy I wasn't aware you paid tax. Thanks for letting me know you pay tax.

PhaedraIsMyName · 22/09/2014 18:18

Rita I can recall referring to "a friend " once in all of this. It was in response to one of the many, many "the eyes of the world are upon us , how can we say no posts" mentioning an American friend who thought we had collectively gone mad if we voted yes.

I have specifically mentioned my mil here given the ageist posts about older people being too selfish/ too ill- informed to vote yes.

As for not engaging - how dare you. I have never in any of these threads said I would leave. Not once. I'm engaging now given the apparent unwillingness of the Yes campaign to respect the decision of the electorate.

Can you imagine the storm that would erupt if "the 45" were No and we were behaving in this way?

SirChenjin · 22/09/2014 18:20

There was no need to state the obvious

Grin

No, stating the obvious is not the SNP's forte. Why give facts when you can subject the country to a nation-wide game of Let's Pretend?

HappyScotProudBrit · 22/09/2014 18:23

And if you are complaining about the Dutch confusing England with the UK, then I hope you never use the word "Holland".

is that aimed at me? and what does it have to do with the rest of your post? It seems so random stuck in there at the end of a post that is about something else completely, and is responding to the points made by a whole other poster? weird.

anyway.

How many Dutch people have you met who are even mildly insulted by the use of the word Holland. Me? I haven't ever met a single one Chelsy. Not one. Ever. I know plenty of Dutch people, who when speaking English, automatically say Holland instead of the Netherlands. I have canvassed Dutch people on this on the past, and not one was even mildly irritated by the Holland/Nederland thing. It is a total non-issue for every Dutch person I know. Unlike your average Glaswegian who isn't usually chuffed to bits to be told they are living in England.

My husband and inlaws are all Dutch born and bred, and they too have never met a single Dutch person insulted, annoyed or irritated by the Holland thing.

What point are you trying to make here Chelsy?

And just for the record, I am not complaining. I am discussing a widely held misconception that it's perfectly acceptable for Scottish people to be called English, and that Scotland can be called a part of England. It's not.

ChelsyHandy · 22/09/2014 18:23

Secret My ex was Dutch and he used 'Holland'

And is that not an example of how to be relaxed and not get worked up about the fact that the rest of the world does not have as much knowledge about your own home country as you?

HappyScotProudBrit · 22/09/2014 18:28

My ex was Dutch and he used 'Holland'. Hmm

Thanks for that Secret Grin

Chelsy has just got her knickers in a twist with me and is now saying silly things to demonstrate her superior knowledge of all things Euro and Dutch. No Dutch person will ever be insulted by the Netherlands/Holland thing. The vast majority of them, like your ex, will happily declare "I am from Holland".