To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

It's not remotely like that. A YES vote was a YES forever.

But the converse cannot be true

Secret, I get that. We all accept things at different rates. I am not expecting yes-voters to be happy right now, what I didn't expect was the backlashes and debunking of the democratic process, like we saw on here only a few hours ago with blaming older no-voters as being too thick/scared/selfish. I expected sad. I expected angry. I expected dejection. What I didn't expect was that my own country men (and women!) would turn on each other and accuse each other of being too scared/thick/selfish to vote the correct way. If we have to turn on anyone, shouldn't we turn on the campaign leaders who didn't present a good enough case that enough people felt they could vote for? If yes had won, I would be unhappy, sad, broken hearted and lost..... I would however never have placed any blame at the doors of the YES voters. I wouldn't have called them thick or selfish or whatever. That's what gets to me. We attack each other. I can't stand that. I am no oldie. But it gets on my tits to see people on here attack older no-voters as being thick, selfish and scared, then they get back slapped and high fived for doing so. That IMHO sucks.

But the converse cannot be true

so what do you want? 4 yearly referendums on independence. or 5 yearly? or once a decade?

Yes, more limbo. That's exactly what Scotland needs.

YES had their chance. The people don't want it.

He's a despicable self-serving misogynist whose opinion means nothing to me

We can add George Galloway to that. They may say what we want to hear and repeat things from better people that we agree with but they are both horrible and I would hate to see either of them near a Scottish parliament.

See, something else to agree on.

I'm with happyscot. I don't blame disappointed yessers for regrouping, mourning and having a post mortem.
But the calls for a recount and instant demands for a fresh referendum are counter productive. Please just let biboth sides move on. There is no appetite for a rerun amongst the majority of voters, and forcing the issue will alienate them from the cause even more.

Calls for a recount etc are paranoid and ridiculous. But do you really believe that if there is a majority of Yes MSPs democratically voted in, that these parties should then not call for a referendum?

I think that would only be reasonable if it was an extremely clear well publicised campaign pledge and the majority happened after a high turnout. The last holyrood election had a turnout of 50%.

What are you on about? Why should she not discuss it with her sons? No doubt she discussed it with her friends as well. As it happens one of her sons has beenan SNP member for over 40 years , the other voted No

I'm going to apologise for my earlier comments about your relative (m-i-l?). Of course she should be able to talk to her family. My own children didn't all vote the same way, and that's healthy - I wouldn't want them to be clones of me.

What irked me was the idea that a lone woman, no matter what age, had to be coached towards a decision by her sons. You now say that she has friends around too (not every 90-year-old is so fortunate), so she isn't quite the isolated person I was imagining.

To my mind, she is still "isolated" if she has no access to other information - we may despise elements of social media, but really - just "reading the papers" and watching the BBC isn't going to help anyone make an informed decision these days. I don't see what's so outrageous about suggesting she might have gone along to a few meetings as well.

I'm sorry I upset you though.

What the MSPs do is up to them. If parliamentary process allows it then we will have to suck up another effing referendum.

But most SNP held areas voted no, didn't they?

I'm just saying how voters will react. I would be utterly gutted at the thought of being put through this again in the short to medium term, and the 55 almost certainly agree with me.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine I don't think anyone thought that the people campaigning for independence would stop wanting it. But the majority of Scots have just said 'No'. We were told that this was a once in a generation, maybe once in a lifetime, vote. Clearly that was empty rhetoric. But I'd expect that we could have a break from it

People don't want endless campaigning and arguments with family and friends, they don't want the uncertainty or the distraction from actual political decisions which make things better for people.

The idea was that independence would make Scotland a better place. 2 million people voted no, not because they don't want Scotland to be a better place, but because they believe we don't need to take the risks of independence to achieve it.

I want to get started on that positive future within the UK now. Not spend endless years of limbo rehashing the same old arguments.

There is a huge middle ground of people who voted no but wanted more powers, and people who voted yes but who would have preferred to vote for more powers within the UK if only they believed it would happen. These people dont want another referendum, they want the powers delivered and used to benefit the people in Scotland.

I personally think they might hurt their own cause by going after another referendum in the near future. The people who voted No would be be infuriated at the perceived dismissal of their majority vote and I'm not even sure there's an appetite among everyone who voted Yes to start all over again. I think people will be battle weary for a while yet.

We're not allowed to patronize the young now that they voted the 'right' way, why are we allowed to patronize the old for voting the 'wrong' way?

If they hadn't lowered the voting age for this one off referendum then it would have been a no landslide.

Happy, Morris. Ach, I just typed up a whole big thing and lost it. Oh well. Gist was - I for one am sorry for that. If that helps at all.

And I for one don't want another referendum any time soon. My liver can't take it. Let's see where devo max takes us for the next wee while.

I'll drink to that x

We can add George Galloway to that. They may say what we want to hear and repeat things from better people that we agree with but they are both horrible and I would hate to see either of them near a Scottish parliament

Agreed. Not because they're "horrible" - that would exclude so many more! - but because they're both self-serving misogynists. If we're going to scrutinise politics, we need to scrutinise individuals. We can't blindly follow anyone who just says what we want to hear at that moment - I'd want everyone to take a long hard look at previous behaviour.

I'd be happy to see Tommy and George flung in a sealed capsule and fired out to space. Give them enough food, water and oxygen to survive a good decade of hurtling around the milky way bellowing at one another.

Farage would be in there with them too.

I think that would only be reasonable if it was an extremely clear well publicised campaign pledge and the majority happened after a high turnout. The last holyrood election had a turnout of 50%.

I agree about the Yes being a clear part of manifesto. I disagree about turnout - if people can't be arsed to vote you can only assume they don't particular care one way or another.

I too would like the whole thing to go away, the last couple of years has been fairly wearing I suspect, like with Quebec, that when significant powers have been devolved to Scotland the movement will wither.

I don't want a recount, I don't want another referendum either...not just now anyway, what would be the point, no-one's changing their minds are they? lol

But, I don't think it should be completely off the table either if the devolution of further powers either breaks down or turns out to be a load of meaningless powers...but after that, not now.

I think that if WM truly delivers devo Max then that will pretty much kill of the Yes movement. Problem is I very much doubt that they will.

babyboomer - yes 'horrible' a bit vague (I would have to start a spreadsheet) but Tommy and George can safely be ignored forever.

Yup tommy and George definitely need to go back in their boxes. I did like the irony of a friend telling me to "ignore other politicians as they're all lying, but here watch this clip of Tommy Sheridan because he's an amazing politician I really admire." Apparently pointing out that I prefer politicians not to have perjury convictions makes me really judgemental. Who knew?

Here's me trying to be moderate by calling them 'horrible'.
What I actually meant is cunts
There I said it.

opens 'cunt' column on spreadsheet

Wholeheartedly agree re: George and Tommy. Awful pair.

"ignore other politicians as they're all lying, but here watch this clip of Tommy Sheridan because he's an amazing politician I really admire."

Ugh, because perjury isn't lying? lol

I hate Tommy Sheridan...I actually know one of the witnesses in the perjury trial, so I know secondhand rather than from the press how bad he is, but I do grudgingly slightly admire that he is currently saying - vote for them rather than vote for me. I suspect he's got some self-serving plan behind it, but until that shows itself I'm prepared to consider that he might possibly be being genuine on what he believes just now.