to really regret the whole grammar school thing.

[newrecruit]

DS1 is in year 4 (DS2 in year 1).

I went to a girls grammar school and loved it. So when we moved out of London one of the reasons we chose this area was the schools. I don't think we are super selective (don't quite know what that means)

However, I was explaining the schools to him this morning as we drove past one and had an impending feeling of doom.

He's bright but can't be arsed. Resists pushing and I am against tutor on principal. I don't think he'd suit an all boys school.

What have I done! We should have just moved to a comprehensive area with a decent intake.

Some parents are already talking about tutors and its 2 years away. I want to hit them quite hard.

Please pile in and tell me to get a grip.

In many grammar school areas, if you get into a Grammar then you'll get a reasonable education. If you don't, then no one has any real expectations of you - especially at school. I live in an area with quite a few good grammar schools. The comps are the sink holes of the area - children are not, in general, served well by the education offered there.

When friends ask me what they should do for their children in terms of tutoring, I always reply that it's an intelligence test BUT one that expects a child to be widely read and to have an excellent vocabulary. Also that there will be maths in the test that hasn't necessarily been taught in a normal state school by that point. So from early on, giving a child the experience of older, more classical children's literature (Beatrix Potter when they're small, original versions of Alice in Wonderland, Treasure Island etc), will give them the vocabulary and understanding required for the verbal reasoning. You can read the stories to them when they're young, then they read them as they mature. For the maths, a tutor is handy, but you can do it at home.

We live in a not super selective Grammar School area. My two boys aren't even in school yet but I see the issues friends have with their children and the 11+ and it makes me worry. However, DH and I both teach at a local sec mod and I would have absolutely no hesitation sending my boys there. We have 6th formers who go off to good Russell Group universities every year, I don't believe any student would be disadvantaged by attending our school.

We're in Kent - this is my opinion - but I think that if you want to child to have a chance at the 11+ then you need to either have an exceptionally bright child, send them to an independent prep school, or have them tutored/tutor yourself with practice papers (because they will be competing with tutored children).

The independent schools around here prep their children for the tests in a big way, not all state primary schools do. My ds1 passed the 11+ but his primary school had not even taught all the necessary maths to pass - they hadn't covered algebra, for example. My stepdad is a maths/chemistry teacher, and tutored ds1 for the maths paper. He was shocked, he said some of the questions on the practice papers were GCSE level.

Some of the NVR practice questions were so difficult, dh and I (both grammar school and university educated) struggled with

New, I understand your objections, but perhaps you might reconsider.

Re: objection No.1 - I think you're already doubting your position here. You would definitely be putting your DC at a disadvantage if you did no preparation (with or without a tutor). This isn't thirty years ago, when the idea of "getting in on your own merits" was all anyone did. These days, you have to enable your DC to compete with the others. Which doesn't mean cramming and relentless pressure and drills. It means intelligently preparing for very new kinds of tests (NVR etc), and also getting practice working to a specified time. It also helps to review maths and english work, unless you've had the good fortune to have gone to a spectacular primary school.

Objection No.2: sorry OP, but it IS a big deal. This is about your skill in managing this - but it can be a positive experience for your DC to work hard for a specific goal - even if he doesn't get into grammar. His effort and learning will be beneficial no matter where he goes to secondary.

Oh and BTW, in my area (super selective) at least, around 50% of grammar school places are taken by students coming from private preps. My DD is at a state school, and I feel I have to level that particular playing field.

Would it be less fair on him to allow him to sit the exam without giving him the proper preparation.

Sadly, yes.

If you're in a super selective area, the other high schools will still have some very able pupils.

My DD is in Y5, and I have no intention of letting her sit the 11+, but quite a few of her class mates are now being tutored weekly

Sabrinn - I'm sooooo glad you said that. Despite a post-graduate degree, I really really struggled with NVR questions too! I remember just looking at the page and saying to myself "huh?".

Cingo even thirty odd years ago my state school spent hours every week working on past papers and showing us how to do the questions. My DM did the same with me at home. I lived on a council estate where the local school was truly awful, pretty much everyone left school by the Easter before the O levels. My estate however was in a 11 plus area and getting into a grammar school was literally life changing.
OP if you think your DS could be in the top 20-30% range then if it was me I would either tutor myself or hire someone. Look at it as practising rather than tutoring. How bad or good is the alternative school? Would it suit your DC to be a brighter DC at that school?

Chicken I didn't know that. Thanks for updating me.

i would have loced to go to grammar school. my lil bro did and had tutoring

Terrier. Thank you for being so blunt

Eh, how was terrier blunt? You said in your OP that you didn't know what superselective meant and she explained it was the top 5%. Did I miss something?

It was more the "move or get a tutor" statement!

...Resists pushing and I am against tutor on principle.

As you attended a grammar school, you ought to remember that one is not 'pushed' at grammar school. One is just swept along with all the others. I, too, attended a County Grammar School and didn't want to work but came out with splendid results. It's not just the exam results either. One ends up with a personal polish / finesse that gets you anywhere.

The trouble with Grammars is that they make all the other local schools much worse (as they are left with 'lower achievers' and those that can't afford Tutors). Go and look round a few and see which one you and your child prefer. Good luck!

TiggyTape's post of 11.30 is spot on. An excellent analysis of the difference between grammars from area to area.

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I know several children (all now young adults) who have been through the Kent grammar system and are absolutely not of especially high caibre academically, and have gone to pretty low-grade unis with C D E grades at A level.

On the other hand I know a particular super-selective where virtually every single pupil who lasts the course and is not encouraged to leave if they fall behind gets four or five A to A* at A level.

You ended to find out what the local non grammar schools are like. If very few local kids get into the grammar school because it is so super selective the other schools may well be fine.

We live in a grammar school area near London but the schools until last year were now full mostly of kids from London who are tutored to the hilt to get in as the train fare is cheaper than secondary private education. This meant less local children got in and so went to the comprehensive schools which are pretty much all good and get good results. Last year the grammars all changed their intake criteria so 60% (I think) of places goes to children within 12 miles of the school and only 40% is up for open competition so the schools are part of the local community again. I'm not sure this will be as positive for the comprehensives in the town as more of the top local children will get creamed off again.

All the secondary schools round here are having their open evenings at the moment so they probably are where you live too. Why don't you visit them all?

Single sex schools are so oudated

Yet so popular. I wish they'd consider then more when building/ extending schools.

KEGS?

DS hated the idea of going to an all boys' school. He told me his friend's were taking the mick out of him, especially as he is one of the cleverest in his class. Yet, in a week exactly, he will be sitting the exam, purely because he wants to. We have had a tutor since a year ago and he is now motivated to go there. He wants to be a cardiologist when he's older and follow in my footsteps. I told him that the easiest way to get there is by excepting opputunities. The message sunk in and he wants to go. Luckily two other boys from his class are taking the test and hopefully they will all get in. Grammar schools are great and when I say they are, I'm not "rattling on" like someone unnamed above has said we do, I'm simply saying that my experience with one was fantastic and I hope my daughter passes in two years time to get into the same one I went to.

We're in Bucks. The grammars take the top 30ish percent in the exams. The uppers (with a small number of exceptions) are nowhere near as successful in getting pupils through exams or as well resourced. The grammars themselves are decent ( if not particularly exciting) schools that get very good results at GCSE and A Level. I would still rather have a proper mixed ability comp though.

A huge percentage of year 5s are tutored, go to eleven plus classes or spend hours doing past papers in the run up to the exams. Those that don't are massively disadvantaged when it comes to the exams because they ARE a competition.

We did not want our DCs lives to be dominated by cramming for the exams but did want them to be in with a good chance of passing so we sent them to a weekly class that made learning how to answer the different question types fun. It wasn't pressured but it did make them feel well prepared.

We also knew we had the option of sending any DCs that did not get into the grammars to an out of area comp. is that an option for you OP?

My ds goes to a tutor (has done since yr4, is yr5 now) I would love him to get into the local grammar but if he doesn't it is not the end of the world. He goes to a tutor to fill the gaps in his education, give him confidence and help him take responsibility for his learning. She is really lovely and he enjoys going.

We just assumed he'd be a genius

You're not alone. Loads of people talk about moving to places near us "for the grammar schools". They forget that their child may well be one of the 80% that goes to a secondary modern.

Our area is actually well served, as there are really good comprehensives, but also grammar schools nearby. People living a couple of miles from us don't get a look in on the comprehensives. They just have to hope they get a grammar.