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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to really regret the whole grammar school thing.

999 replies

newrecruit · 20/09/2014 11:16

DS1 is in year 4 (DS2 in year 1).

I went to a girls grammar school and loved it. So when we moved out of London one of the reasons we chose this area was the schools. I don't think we are super selective (don't quite know what that means)

However, I was explaining the schools to him this morning as we drove past one and had an impending feeling of doom.

He's bright but can't be arsed. Resists pushing and I am against tutor on principal. I don't think he'd suit an all boys school.

What have I done! We should have just moved to a comprehensive area with a decent intake.

Some parents are already talking about tutors and its 2 years away. I want to hit them quite hard.

Please pile in and tell me to get a grip.

OP posts:
Molio · 21/09/2014 12:05

Seconded duchesse.

I also don't think any of the parents talking about the absolute need for tutoring are listening to the point about the new tests either. Perhaps because they know that all this talk about tutoring in itself puts off kids brighter than their own who can't afford tutoring. I'd like to see contextual data added in to the mix too, just as it is for uni entry.

Missunreasonable I think you're not allowing for the fact that even at the top super selectives there's a wide spectrum of ability. Someone has to be at the top and someone else at the bottom. That's in the nature of things. Setting happens too.

LePetitMarseillais · 21/09/2014 12:08

I also know some kids who are extremely gifted in say maths but get a bit of tutoring just on the Eng and vice versa.

Worst I have a bigger problem with kids disadvantaged through lack of sleep(which has a massive impact on education), too much screen time,with parents who don't hear them read etc and end up leavening school not literate or numerate.

A few bright kids squabbling over a few grammar places really doesn't enrage me that much.

Maiyakat · 21/09/2014 12:10

My friend is a teacher in a none grammar school in a grammar school area. She says her top sets are achieving the same as the local grammar school pupils, and she thinks some of them wouldn't have achieved as well under the pressures of the grammar school. So all is not lost if he
doesn't get in!

tiggytape · 21/09/2014 14:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Missunreasonable · 21/09/2014 16:12

Children who have qualified for Pupil Premium at any point in the last 6 years can now be given priority admission to grammar schools

Schools can do that but they don't have to. In some areas some of the grammar schools are actually academies and can have a lot more say in admission criteria than schools without academy status.
The pupil premium thing is also not a fair system because any child who has been on free school meals within the last six years can qualify under the pupil premium criteria. If a child was in receipt of free school meals 4 years prior to sitting the 11+ and has parents who are both now high earners and the child is now at a prep school do you think he should be given the advantage of the pupil premium lower score admission? He technically could be and I think it is wrong.
We need a fairer system but I don't think the current pupil premium rules are fairer at all.

higgle · 21/09/2014 17:53

Tutoring is more about learning what sort of questions there will be and the best technique to answer them in the time permitted than hot housing. The specialist 11+ tutors in gloucestershire do group sessions as well as private ones so you might only need to spend about 70 to ensure your child is fully prepared. Pupils wouldn't need this if teh primary schools did 11+ prep ( they did in my day ) DS1 had friends who were twins. Twin 1 got in with a very low mark and twin 2 got a mark or two less but got in on appeal, so they were certainly the lowest performing children who got in that year. The twins did well at grammar school. the structure suited them and they got very good A level grades and degrees and now both have well paid graduate jobs.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 21/09/2014 19:16

I also know some kids who are extremely gifted in say maths but get a bit of tutoring just on the Eng and vice versa

I really think people need to get tutoring into perspective.

What if My DH was PHD in Maths> but....we had no tutor?
I am a teacher but we had no tutor,

or we are both shite in everything but make loads of money and sent her to prep which preps her?

I mean honestly?

Its not a level playing field out there anyway in what parents do...

tiggytape · 21/09/2014 19:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TalkinPeace · 21/09/2014 21:10

Just move to a non Grammar area and be done with it

ithoughtofitfirst · 21/09/2014 21:17

Don't you need to learn more than just grammar at school though? Grin

I have no business being here.

smokepole · 21/09/2014 21:36

It always seems to be the ones who went to grammar or selective private schools that "Wax Lyrical" about how brilliant Comprehensive schools and how evil selective schools are. Those who want selective education always seem to have come from Comprehensive education themselves , they know the reality away from a few "naice" Hampshire Comps.

StripyBanana · 21/09/2014 21:49

Yup - the winchester comps are fantastic, and not at all representative of the rest of the country!

Mintyy · 21/09/2014 21:54

Apropos of nothing in particular, I went to a Winchester comprehensive school in the first year the city went comprehensive - 1974. I wouldn't say it was a fantastic school but I came out with enough O levels to do A levels and enough A levels (at Peter Symonds) to go to a college of the University of London and acquire a 2:1 degree from there.

I would have passed the 11+ - as it existed in those days - and gone to grammar had I been born a year earlier, with hopefully precisely the same outcome.

UsedtobeFeckless · 21/09/2014 21:57

I'm nowhere near Hampshire. Our comps are fine.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 21/09/2014 21:58

I came from a "comprehensive system" and """""wax lyrical""""" about "Comprehensive" "Schools".

It's just easier for some people to argue if they can seize on anyone who didn't, I think.

MarianneSolong · 21/09/2014 22:00

My 17 year old daughter gave quite a concise summary of the difference between her selective girls' school and the non-selective one nearby. She said it was possible that her grades may not have been quite so high if she'd gone to the comprehensive, but that she would probably feel less stress. She believes her own school has fewer problems re bullying and the level of behaviour in classes may be rather better.

But she states that there is a far higher incidence of mental health problems - anorexia, self-harm, depression etc - at her grammar school than in the nearby comprehensive school, and that the school's own pastoral care leaves quite a lot to be desired.

It would be hard to determine how much of this ill health is a result of pressure imposed by the school, and how much is a consequence of parental 'pushing' and 'stretching.' Probably a combination of the two.

As parents I think we should be careful what we wish for.

UsedtobeFeckless · 21/09/2014 22:08

I know this is heresy and I'm hoiking my flame-retardents but to be honest - hand on heart - I really think that given the parents are engaged and the kids are fairly motivated and the school isn't a total war-zone then they'll be fine wherever they end up! ( Runs away )

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 21/09/2014 22:13

I agree, but be prepared to be told you must live in a leafy suburb or else have low standards!

MarianneSolong · 21/09/2014 22:15

Also agreed. (Have high standards and few leaves!)

UsedtobeFeckless · 21/09/2014 22:31

Well, we do have lots of leaves ( And mud, and cows, and all the stuff that goes with cows ) and mine are the whatever-gets-you-through-to-the-next-stage-with-the-minimum-of-fuss sort of standards, rather than the 15 A* smugfest sort so they might have a point ...

My uncle was an academic sucess at all costs parent and he drove his children so hard they both had breakdowns and one comited suicide. So I'm aiming to be a Bumblebee Mother ( Buzzes around gently doing no harm to anyone ) rather than a Tiger Mother!

minifingers · 21/09/2014 22:52

Threads like this fill me with horrible guilt for doing nothing more with my children than reading to them and getting them to do their homework.

Jesus - three children who I always thought were bright and set for success because they read well, are articulate and are quick learners.

Now I'm thinking - they're all fucked. It's like there's a whole other world of academic competition and they're not a part of it because I haven't had them sitting down regularly doing extra maths and English.....

Molio · 21/09/2014 22:52

Missunreasonable you completely misunderstand the system.

Grammars which are academies are completely tied to the Admissions Code.

The 'priority' given to those on FSM is only relevant in the event of a last tied place.

Molio · 21/09/2014 22:57

minifingers but it isn't in the least obvious that MN kids achieve more highly than one would expect. They really don't seem to.

tiggytape · 21/09/2014 23:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NerfHerder · 21/09/2014 23:06

missunreasonable pupils in prep school are not entitled to receive Pupil Premium, unless they are LAC, so even were a child to have been in receipt of FSM within the previous 6 years, once they attend a prep school, they cease to be eligible for PP.
However, I'm interested in how many children you believe might be in this situation, where there has been such a reversal of fortune and a child the previously received FSM now attends a prep. I cannot imagine there would be many it would apply to, but I could be mistaken.