to really regret the whole grammar school thing.

[newrecruit]

DS1 is in year 4 (DS2 in year 1).

I went to a girls grammar school and loved it. So when we moved out of London one of the reasons we chose this area was the schools. I don't think we are super selective (don't quite know what that means)

However, I was explaining the schools to him this morning as we drove past one and had an impending feeling of doom.

He's bright but can't be arsed. Resists pushing and I am against tutor on principal. I don't think he'd suit an all boys school.

What have I done! We should have just moved to a comprehensive area with a decent intake.

Some parents are already talking about tutors and its 2 years away. I want to hit them quite hard.

Please pile in and tell me to get a grip.

Marni, what about making all schools of a certain standard, then there would be no race to get into one?

Hak the Sutton Trust are committed to educational equality. That is their raison d'être. They carry out research as part of that aim. Why would they lie?

Marni, what about making all schools of a certain standard, then there would be no race to get into one?

Well yes, that is the holy grail, but we clearly aren't there yet. And as long as Talkin can drive past her nearest 'shit-hole' to get to her great comp but others can't because of expensive catchments or whatever these arguments will rage. And people who can avoid the worst schools by paying a premium to get in catchment or tutoring for grammar schools or paying for private will continue to do so because they aren't prepared to sacrifice their child's educational chances. And those who can do none of the above will be left in a crap school (like my DNephew). And no amount of middle-class hand-wringing and demands to see the fucking 'facts' will change that. And it pisses me right off.

Fascinating links
and do not budge my views by an iota
because
one is a study that is sponsored by an estate agent
the other looks at selective primary schools : as rare as hen's teeth

Seriously
I've got Thornden up the road : look it and its results up ( its not the chaos that the nutter on another thread predicts )
there is a house price premium, but its very stable and known

nowt can be done about that except they get minimum funding becaue they have stuff all FSM / travellers / you name it

localised decision making and funding is the answer (as I said above)

I'm not saying anyone's lying. I just want figures. I honestly don't see a problem with that. I think it's outrageous that people buy themselves into a good catchment, and I actually think admissions lotteries are the way to go.

But annoys me when people say that the inequality inherent in selective education is somehow OK because there is inequality in comprehensive admissions too. They are both bad. And don't get me started on faith criteria.............

And there is still this intriguing sentence from the Independent report "Half of England's top 30 state schools are in places where the average property price is lower than nearby areas."

I'll send that to my sister then, that'll make her feel loads better that her son is in a school that is once more in special measures. Unfortunately she can't drive past it to get to a better one.

Am sure she'll be 'intrigued'

And people who can avoid the worst schools by paying a premium to get in catchment or tutoring for grammar schools or paying for private will continue to do so because they aren't prepared to sacrifice their child's educational chances

And please add the good old fashioned parent who has no money for tutors, has no great education but only a determination and positive attitude to help their child get into the best school they can within their means.

The same parent who will not tolerate any bulling towards child and all the rest.

Honestly if my Dc cant get into the better schools round here, and have to go to the dogy ones ( sorry Hak I know you don't think they exist - they do round here), I will be the person you see in the news, chained to my MPS leg until they make the class room a safe and pleasant learning environment for my child.

Talk about sharp elbowed MC, whats the opposite?

"I'll send that to my sister then, that'll make her feel loads better that her son is in a school that is once more in special measures. Unfortunately she can't drive past it to get to a better one."

I've already said that there are crap schools and selection by house purchase is outrageous. Does that mean we can't talk about it? Is discussing it somehow disrespectful to your sister?

Marni
I feel her pain.
The school I cop out of and yes, I'm honest enough to know that I am a coward has been in the "bottom 50" list every year for the last 19 years.
Then again DD told me about the genius in her further maths A level class whose school spent the whole of his year 10 in SM : yet he got 12 x A* ....

"sorry Hak I know you don't think they exist "

Oh, ffs!

Of course we can discuss it, but can we please not pretend that the comprehensive system is working for everyone and that if people would just stop accessing private/selective schools it would work perfectly? She's in the NE; no grammars, very few people can afford private. It's as close to fully comprehensive as you're going to get.

And Talkin my DN is no genius so your anecdote offers no reassurance.

marni thankfully no grammars here
I fully admit to not using my local school
but take heart : what you hear in the meejah about what your kids achieve is .......

Is what? I don't need the bloody media-they are living it. And it's shit. But hey, we can discuss it on here, you can drive to the good school, Hak can provide her DS with mum-approved material to fill the gaps. And meanwhile 2000 kids in a rubbish north-east comp can be given a sub-standard education. Happy days!

"Of course we can discuss it, but can we please not pretend that the comprehensive system is working for everyone and that if people would just stop accessing private/selective schools it would work perfectly?"

Yeah well. If anybody is saying that they should stop now. Can we also stop pretending that the selective system works perfectly and nobody is disadvantaged and it's really important to protect the brightest 25 % from the mouth breathing knuckle dragging knife wielding "dregs"in the lower sets?. Please note. Mouth breathing, knuckle dragging knife wielding is exaggeration for comic effect. "Dregs" , however, is a term actually used by a well known, but now name changed, poster to describe children who failed the 11+.

*marni"
do you really think their education is off?
folks like wordfactory know the high point of targets
and she (and her ilk) are ever so, ever so aware of the differences

of your kids "went for it" do you not think they would be welcomed?
if not why not (as its an uber serious point) ?

Wow, what a lot of interest in this one... something I can read end to end and which may distract me from my aches and bruises after a fall this morning.

I went to a boys Grammar School in the early 70s, but never sat he 11+ as (at the time) I was away in a boarding school, and before anyone screams 'rich kid' it was actually the exact opposite situation - our father had been a Freemason years before, died when I was about 6 or 7, and I went to a school funded to assist the families where one or both parents were dead.

The Grammar School headmaster taught Latin and I'd already spen a year or more while at Bushey learning Latin, so that, and some sort of entrance exam sat at the school got me into the L, vs Alpha / Beta class. I tried to give up Latin around the 3rd or 4th year but was persuaded the L stream was more stretching mentally and being able to be 'top' in one of the others would not be an achievement so much as 'expected' and may make me slack...

Some prejudiced views from the Head, now I look back, considering he was responsible for everyone but had some elitist views and targets for the 'top' stream. He was a bit disappointed when I left after O levels to go into the Merchant Navy - probably mucked up his stats for 'A' levels and which universities students went to...

I wonder if it was people like me, brought up in similar Grammar schools, who perpetuated the selection and took on some of the 'super selective' ideas I think my old Head had way back in time ?

Can only wish all of you parents the best for getting whatever education you hope for, for your DC, whatever their ages and wherever you are. It seems a very tough 'business' these days, just wanting to do 'moderately well' isn't enough in these challenging times. Must have a chat with my niece who works in Dept of Ed in London... she's one of the Whitehall brigade that possibly puts forward suggestions to Govt - I really hope she's not too elitist (!)

Oh FFS. I don't know who said that and I don't care because they must be stupid. These arguments on MN go round and round. I think we can probably agree that a selective system like that in Kent doesn't work. But I don't think the current comprehensive system works either and certainly not for everyone. It is not the holy grail. There has to be a better way, whether that is by fair-banding or lottery. But as long as people just adopt the usual positions nothing will change. And I think that's a shame.

Talkin I'm sorry I don't understand your post.

Marni
What if ..... school decision making was devolved back to local areas, suppoterd by Pupil premium
so in your area (DH has worked there so I asked him)
PP piled into schools of the order that London schools have had for the last 10 years
AND
selection was demolished so every school was equally cluster supported to get good GCSE / A level / University guidance

its not a huge change : just involves devolution and no selection

"Dregs in the lower sets"

Oh you mean the ones those in the top sets never ever share classrooms with and who often endure a completely different comprehensive education.

At one of of our local comps we've been told- "it's fine,so long as they're in the top sets away from the chair throwers".

Those parents who preen their dc are in the local comp are often those whose kids enjoy the top set comprehensive education and never set foot in the lower classrooms with the rest.Hardly comprehensive.

In my area? My area is in London. Are you talking about the NE? There's no selection there anyway. And given that DN's school has been in and out of special measures for many years and serves a disadvantaged area they must have been in receipt of PP? It's still shit.