to really regret the whole grammar school thing.

[newrecruit]

DS1 is in year 4 (DS2 in year 1).

I went to a girls grammar school and loved it. So when we moved out of London one of the reasons we chose this area was the schools. I don't think we are super selective (don't quite know what that means)

However, I was explaining the schools to him this morning as we drove past one and had an impending feeling of doom.

He's bright but can't be arsed. Resists pushing and I am against tutor on principal. I don't think he'd suit an all boys school.

What have I done! We should have just moved to a comprehensive area with a decent intake.

Some parents are already talking about tutors and its 2 years away. I want to hit them quite hard.

Please pile in and tell me to get a grip.

The comprehensive system is NOT perfect.
The fact that my local school is untouchable because it is a sponsored academy is disgraceful.
Any other school that went two terms without a single MFL teacher or a whole term without any science teachers at all would be rightly hauled through the press.

The fact that most Education policy is made by people who live in Central London and did not even attend state schools is disgraceful.
The fact that PRUs are not more widely used to give disruptive pupils time to sort out their problems without disrupting everybody else is disgraceful.

BUT
Sending the most sharp elbowed 1% or 5% or 20% to a different building to learn is not going to deal with any of those problems.

Only by looking at all schools equally and devolving control away from London will heads and inspectors be able to do the right thing for all of the children in their area whose parents are not in the 10% who can afford to pay for segregation.

The fact that most Education policy is made by people who live in Central London and did not even attend state schools is disgraceful

Indeed, and famously send their own DC to special schools!

Where to send your children to school has been a fraught issue for Labour MPs in the past. Diane Abbot courted controversy in 2003 when she took her son out of his Hackney state school to send him to the £13,803 a year City of London School for Boys.

Harriet Harman was also criticised when she sent her children to grammar school in 1997.

Nick Clegg sent his son Antonio to the same league topping Catholic secondary school in Chelsea that Tony Blair chose for tow of his children. The London Oratory was a grammar school until the 1970s and only ended selection interviews in 2006.

The school, which became an academy in 2011, admits 160 boys from across London to its senior school each year, with priority given to practising Catholics.

Tristram Hunt won't 'rule out' private school for his children
Tristram Hunt, the new shadow education secretary, would consider sending his children to private school, he has revealed.

Beyondrepair
That is NOT the point I was making.

My point is that they have never attended state school so have no idea what a comp is like.

I went to private selective till I was 18 and then to Uni.
I never met unmotivated/uninterested/unintelligent people until I started work and it was a heck of a shock.
My DCs know lots of such people - choose not to socialise with them but know them and understand them.

Wordfactory
can you really blame me for not wanting to send my kids to a school that has no MFL teachers in post for two terms?

My point is that they have never attended state school so have no idea what a comp is like.

I guess they are like many on this thread then?

Indeed, but they are setting the rules - we are just pontificating

Very late back to this, but in reference to 20% of intake getting L6 maths, and the views of the secondary Maths teachers?

" "ooh, peers with academic ability" but "wow, what's happening at that primary school from whence they came?"

What is happening is that the secondary has a very effective outreach programme, in which its maths department spend one Friday afternoon per fortnight going out and teaching the most able pupils in the local primaries some fun - not Level 6 explicitly, just fun - maths.

My understanding from said maths teachers is that a) they love it, b) they have a much better understanding of how high some primary school children really can go and c) they entirely believe the L6 stats. Winners all round :-)

I hope you carry weaponry when out and about in public. Attackers are notorious for not being able to handle knives more effectively than those that are their victims (tongue firmly in cheek).

I do hope that you live in an area now where there are not all these rapes taking place on buses and disfigurements with knives on the mean streets.

FWIW, I was educated in what you would probably class a below bog standard school and have over twenty years management and teaching experience in PRUs, YO institutions, prisons and schools.

It sounds fantastic teacherwith2kids, too bad there is nothing like that in our area.

But schools aren't equal Talking.

Up and down the country there are comps stuffed full of children who have been bought places through property.

There is no equality and never will be.

Frankly all parents should be encouraged to do what is best for their children as there is no level playing field.I can't afford private so will do the best I can with what I've got.I have no intention of playing equal happy families when parents can buy private school and top comp places.< goes off to sharpen elbows with gusto>

LePetit
There is indeed huge variation between schools : but targeted and devolved decision making, supported with funding approaches such as the Pupil Premium will do far more good that removing some of the children to a different building.

The fact that my local school and its twin have hundreds of empty places should be a cause for huge concern and significant changes at the top.
But because all academies are rules from Westminster the LEA who desperately need those places can do nothing.

And actually the number of parents who can afford to move house at the drop of a hat is so vanishingly small that it is not a significant factor outside London : remember that kids are only at a school for 7 years so unless all of the families move out of the catchment when their child leaves, there will be a drag on places that flexes catchments.

People don't move at a drop of a hat,they look ahead and those that can afford it move to the best catchment areas before and after dc are born.

It is a huge problem up and down the country.

Can't believe you really aren't aware of it.It's been highly reported.

"
"Up and down the country there are comps stuffed full of children who have been bought places through property."

How much does this happen? Are there any statistics?

LePetit
MN is full of such stories, as is the Daily Heil, and yes, Thornden catchment adds £50,000 to the value of a house
BUT
many of the houses have been owned for a long time
the premium is because they come up rarely, not because most ofthe parents have moved in specially.

If my house was over the border in the catchment for DCs school it would cost 60% more : and I would not be able to afford it.

What evidence is there that its a problem outside London?

You seriously haven't heard Sutton,Wilshaw and others express concern about this?

Off the top of my head from this summer and a broadsheet:-

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/poor-children-priced-out-of-best-state-schools-9689852.html

www.independent.co.uk/property/house-and-home/top-catchment-area-house-price-premiums-revealed-7585658.html

Sorry can't do proper links but there are loads of studies which have proved the link between increased house prices and catchments for the 'best' schools.

X-post!

House prices in our area dropped when our school dropped from Outstanding.

School Ofsted grades are often included on estate agent house details.

Ofsted outstanding is probably better for house prices than any great difference in the classroom. Estate agent's dream. In London anyhow.

"You seriously haven't heard Sutton,Wilshaw and others express concern about this?"

Yes of course I have. And I know it happens. I was just wondering if anyone knows how big a problem it is.

That article also says "Half of England's top 30 state schools are in places where the average property price is lower than nearby areas."

Are there any proper statistics?

It is a huge problem.

Pick any area you can't afford to live in,chances are it has an Outstanding school catchment.

I'm guessing Sutton and Wilshaw have plenty of "proper stats" to hand.

Conor Ryan, director of research at education charity the Sutton Trust, said: “This research confirms that access to the best state schools is too often linked to family income … where comprehensive schools prioritise proximity in admissions, they close off access to many who can’t afford the high house prices.”

He called on schools to adopt “fairer admissions policies” and consider “random allocation”, giving priority to pupils from poorer families, as part of their admissions policy.

You can't pretend it's not a problem because it clearly is. The question is what to do about it? Random allocation would seem to be a good start, or fair banding to ensure a spread of ability.

"You can't pretend it's not a problem because it clearly is. The question is what to do about it? Random allocation would seem to be a good start, or fair banding to ensure a spread of ability"

I'm not pretending it's not happening, I just want to know the facts.