To want to be proud to be English, for the English to have their own independent parliament and to stop my nationality from being landed with shit from 100s of years ago?!

[Marmiteandjamislush]

I know I'll get flamed to bugger for this thread, but you what I don't care! I have heard so much stuff about the English everywhere recently, but nobody asks English people how we feel, what we want. Not about Scotland or what other countries in the Union, should or shouldn't do, none of our business imho, but what we want, as English people. How we want our country to run. We are always lumped into an amorphous lump, which still includes imperialist colonials, which boils my piss because most modern English people had nothing to do with that and no power to stop it. When I think of the Scottish People, I don't think of Robert the Bruce, the IRA when I think about the Irish People, so why are all English people lumped together as racist oppressors, it's vile!

Being English can include anybody who wants to be included, for me it's an attitude and a love for the country, which anyone in the world could have if they wanted.

I am crying typing this. I just feel so frustrated by it all. Anyway flame away.

No Cherrypi I don't. Truly, I think of Bono, which to some people might be worse!

Legionofboom, are you American?

What's with all the flagpoles in every garden? They all seem really proud to be American and are very patriotic.

Whereas, being 'proud' and 'patriotic' in England is seen as a shameful thing to be apparently

It would be good to hear things from an American perspective.

Marmite I may have missed this but where do you live?

no one should experience violence and threats because of their accent, i don't think anyone here is going to dispute that

but that doesn't equate to english people as a group being generally oppressed and discriminated against

The problem might be that those people who are most vocal about being British and patriotic tend to be utter racist arseholes. (I'm looking at you EDL/Farage/Britain First). So nationalism is tied up with that (plus historically the waters are very murky).

onelastfling - not shameful. just unnecessary

That's awful Surely

When I lived in Scotland, working as a consultant, a woman who worked for one of the clients (who'd never even spoken to me before) told me that she hated the English with a passion and was only working with me because she had no choice.

She was the most outright about it but I encountered plenty more subtle signs of anti English feeling.

I live in England now Maid but was in Scotland for years. It was a very sad time by and large. I was sworn at by teenagers (English, snooty bitch) can help how I speak, told to go home, I am only here for what I can't get in England. Ignored, drinks spilled on me in pubs. I could go on.

But those Scottish friends I did make are dear to me and Union or Union will change those relationships, we will still visit each other.

Petula, these aren't single experiences. May I ask how you identify, because you don't seem to like the English much for very historic reasons and seem to justify others' experiences because of them.

Petula, these aren't single experiences. May I ask how you identify, because you don't seem to like the English much for very historic reasons and seem to justify others' experiences because of them.

should be can't help how I speak btw

onelastfling I am not American but I work a lot with people in the USA. I do tend to defend them a bit because I do see broad brush stereotypes and anti-American feeling on MN sometimes and it is unfair.

They are raised to be very patriotic I think. I'm not sure if they still do but all children used to swear allegiance to the flag of the USA at school everyday.

Petula, may I ask how you identify, because you don't seem to like the English much for very historic reasons and seem to justify others' experiences because of them.

Yes, why the hate?

If you want people to stop going on about the background bullshit, tell your government to feck off out of occupied Irish land.

Then we'll be nice to you.

I live in England now Maid but was in Scotland for years. It was a very sad time by and large. I was sworn at by teenagers (English, snooty bitch) can help how I speak, told to go home, I am only here for what I can't get in England. Ignored, drinks spilled on me in pubs. I could go on.

I've heard of this, but never really believed it. Sorry you had such a sad time of it.
I have a few Scottish friends who have always been really friendly and welcoming to me.

does it matter? i am english - born in england and both parents born in england. i would describe myself as british as that is how i feel.

i don't want to be abused because of where i was born, either. but i don't equate that with being part of an oppressed nationality, because i have benefited enormously from the way that some groups of english people have treated other groups of english and non-english people

I think NI should have a vote too Walter My grandmas family are all Irish.

Thankyou Legion. I think it is as you say, American children are raised to patriotic.

OP, I am Irish and we cannot/do not fly our flag either (apart from around March 17th) for fear of being thought of as mad, radical nationalists (ie IRA supporters).
Sorry - no option on the rest apart from historically no-one (to my scant knowledge) nationality was ever squeaky clean wrt their treatment of others.

i don't read my posts as hating english people at all. i just think people should acknowledge their own privileges and what other people will have gone without for their benefit

No opinion not option!

no-one (to my scant knowledge) nationality was ever squeaky clean wrt their treatment of others

Exactly, All countries have done things in the past that maybe they shouldn't have.

Petula it only mattered, because you seem so adamant that others shouldn't identify as English and were dismissive of experiences or the reality of anti English xenophobia, that's all. You chose to answer the question.

and some have done more than others, and as a result may have gained more privilege over others. acknowledging this is a good thing

Sorry, Marmite I was being a little tongue in cheek there!

I do believe however, that SF are planning on making a push for an IndeyRef for 2016. So I've been told, anyway.

That will be interesting. I just hope it doesn't start the troubles again.