To want to be proud to be English, for the English to have their own independent parliament and to stop my nationality from being landed with shit from 100s of years ago?!

[Marmiteandjamislush]

I know I'll get flamed to bugger for this thread, but you what I don't care! I have heard so much stuff about the English everywhere recently, but nobody asks English people how we feel, what we want. Not about Scotland or what other countries in the Union, should or shouldn't do, none of our business imho, but what we want, as English people. How we want our country to run. We are always lumped into an amorphous lump, which still includes imperialist colonials, which boils my piss because most modern English people had nothing to do with that and no power to stop it. When I think of the Scottish People, I don't think of Robert the Bruce, the IRA when I think about the Irish People, so why are all English people lumped together as racist oppressors, it's vile!

Being English can include anybody who wants to be included, for me it's an attitude and a love for the country, which anyone in the world could have if they wanted.

I am crying typing this. I just feel so frustrated by it all. Anyway flame away.

I'm proud of being English and I like living in England.

Why proud? Lets see. We are one of the most tolerant nationalities in the world, kind to animals, have a great sense of humour, don't take ourselves too seriously, are very genorous at helping those less fortunate, have the l NHS.....
Our countryside is absolutely beautiful ......
I could go on.
Yep, proud to be a part of this country.

but there's no evidence of english people as a nation being the victims of oppression - any oppression within that has been imposed by english people on other english people

perhaps marmite, but you continue to benefit from the proceeds of that "background bullshit". you weren't responsible, but you are continuing to benefit while others continue to suffer

I like all those thing too one but for me that's not why I feel English, it's very subtle and hard to define, but I just feel something.

Can we sort out the geography please? Great Britain is an island which contains England, Scotland and Wales. We are all British and always will be regardless of how the vote goes on Thursday. If you go by your country you will be English, Scottish or Welsh, if you choose to identify yourself geographically you are British. All three are British.

A moment we are know politically as the United Kingdom of Great Britain, if Scotland becomes independent it will become the United Kingdom in Great Britain. The Scots will remain just as British as they ever were.

Petula, if you want to go down that road, then by the same token you should say that, for example Germans shouldn't be proud of being German?

I mean look what they did (in the past).

But now is now, and they are also entitled to feel proud of their country and it's achievements.

i've already said, i find it odd to feel proud of what is an accident of birth

being german is just as much an accident of birth as being english

I give money and time to charities both at home and abroad, live as ethically as I can, work with AI sometimes and speak out when I need to. So tell me Petula what more can I do?

Germans are very, very chary of excessive displays of nationalism, for precisely that reason, onelastfling

We are one of the most tolerant nationalities in the world, kind to animals, have a great sense of humour, don't take ourselves too seriously, are very genorous at helping those less fortunate, have the l NHS.....
Our countryside is absolutely beautiful .....

But these are things you have had absolutely ZERO input into creating. So why does it make you proud that they exist in the particular society into which you were born (by accident).

If the OP is insistent that collective guilt cannot be valid in terms of historic colonialism (of which we had no part*), then surely we cannot expect to claim collective credit for other stuff into which we had no input?

*Although I agree that by preserving the status quo, we are tacitly accepting those past actions.

So what is the difference then OP?

As an aside, I went to the last night of the proms on Saturday. In Wales. It was a fantastic atmosphere.

Okay, proud is maybe not such a good word.
How about pleased?
I'm pleased/glad to be English.

That's sorted out the proud dilemma

just acknowledge it marmite, and don't dismiss it as "background bullshit"

Petula, we are not allowed to express Englishness in some parts of the 'UK' as is, due to open attack. I have experienced this. I found it quite oppressive not being able to use shops and post offices without abuse for 4 years of my life tbh.

You could take the historical and current effects of British and English imperialism seriously, think about how you have benefitted from it you whole life (along with other British people) and not dismiss it as 'background bullshit'.

onelastfling - my very first post on this thread said exactly that! i'm going to be a knob and quote myself

"find the idea of being proud of what is an accident of birth a bit strange. i'm pleased i'm british because it's a relatively nice place to live, and there are a heck of a lot of privileges that come with it. i suppose i am pleased that it is a country that lots of people want to move to and visit and explore, but i haven't really had much to do with that at all, i just live here and feel rather lucky"

marmite, don't apologize for nothing.

I think your thread is really interesting.

Have you faced open prejudice and abuse whilst shopping OP?

You really don't think of the IRA when you think about Ireland?

"Petula, we are not allowed to express Englishness in some parts of the 'UK' as is,"

Could you say some more about this?

I have acknowledged it and have not dismissed it, anywhere either on this thread or in real life. BUT I do what I personally can to make a mends and I WILL NOT wear a hair shirt, that I did not weave, forever. The background bullshit, is not what happened in history, the bullshit comes in when people will not acknowledge the acknowledgement of fault and keep using as catstails on modern citizens.

People need to direct the 'background bullshit' towards the institutions that did it, not the individuals without control over it

This may be true but people are lazy. People do it about the USA. I have seen people post on here alleging that 'Americans' are pro death penalty, pro gun and everyone is happy with drone attacks. Actually thousands, maybe even millions of them are campaigning against these things.

But it is the actions of the government that the country and it's people are judged on.

How about pleased? I'm pleased/glad to be English

Well, yes, I am certainly glad to have been born where I was, given the global possibilities.

Yes, Are

I've been punched in the face for having an English accent while living in Scotland, if that helps, areyousure.

I really was just walking down the street with a friend in the middle of the day when we were set upon by two bampots who should have been in school.