Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

WildThong - thank you very much. I had the actual telegraph article opened but I can't get it linked and I can't properly open the Daily Record link for some reason, but they are referring to the incident I'm asking about.

We're all getting emotional, but I think most people on here trust the voting system itself.

For previous counts I would have agreed with you but I have now heard comments from people of both persuasions (for different reasons) in which they cast doubt on the basic integrity of the process particularly for postal votes. That is very disquieting in what is likely to be a close vote because it would undermine the mandate and legitimacy in the public eye of the party which prevailed.

Morris You may not be the only person in your family who has changed their minds but don't say so to keep the peace.

One of my closest friends is radical socialist Yes campaigner whereas I am a more mainstream lefty No voter. The odd thing is that we agree on a lot of what we want for Scotland - fairer, etc and even both agree that the SNP/Whitepaper plans are rubbish. But we disagree about how to achieve what we want politically - she puts her faith in the socialists getting a greater voice in an independent Scotland, and I hope for a left of centre Labour government at Westminster and Holyrood. We're still friends even through we frustrate each other at times.

It seems a shame that you feel you can't disagree with your family without falling out over it. But obviously you know your family best. Not being a radical for yes is no where near joining the BNP, it seems odd they have such a narrow range of okay views.

squoosh

I want snogs!

Morris vote and lie to your family. With the background that you've outlined, you'll probably feel awful if you don't vote and the lie is actually just to preserve your right to a secret ballot.

MindReader I think it depends where you live and work whether you'll be subjected to pressure from 'No' voters. In our neighbourhood there is a plethora of union jacks and vote no stickers. It's the same in the community where I work.

I'm finding it fascinating how disparate the 'no' voters are (and I'm sure the same could be said of the 'yes' voters too). However, I've had 'No' voters trying to persuade me on the basis that they support the UK and the Orange Lodge; on the basis that they work in finance and think it's the fiscally responsibly vote; on the grounds that they are entrepreneurs and are concerned about the future for SMEs in Scotland.

tbh I wouldn't call any of it pressure. It's just people being passionate about their opinions and hence wanting everyone to share their views!

I have complete faith in our voting system, and I also have faith that Scotland will pull together afterwards regardless of the outcome.

It's more like the feeling I get when waiting for exam results for me.

at "slightly less snogging"

As for the village: I think I may live in the Scottish equivalent of Royston Vasey

OneNight that's depressing - do we have any monitors? surely the number of postal votes + ballots should tally with population records in some way?

(obv. way out of my depth here)

Morris if you want to vote, whichever way, please do. We all have a voice in this, and given that it is such a major vote, everyone who wants to have their say should. Don't deny yourself because of other people. I don't actually advocate lying, but it is an option.

I had one woman I canvassed who said that she doesn't tell anyone how she's voting. We had a little chat about people in the 19th century who fought to extend the vote and for a secret ballot, and then I moved on. I always ask people if they are happy to tell me, I never assume they will.

wiggly - I take your point about the relative difference between accents of a child and teacher, I really do.

But, in this case, the SfLT said this, in a meeting:
'He can't spell because he has a right English accent, just like you - HAR HAR'. And the Deputy laughed. And the Head laughed.
Would there have been indulgent laughter if she had said: 'he cant spell because he has a right Polish accent / a right Nigerian accent - just like you?' - I think not.
And how does his accent affect the fact he can barely hold a pencil and struggles to form letters? Is this why, after having 'learning support' for 6m he still has no educational plan, no assessment, no targets?
As I said, I take your point re potential difficulties if child and teacher have wildly different accents but the pointed laying any and all SEN at the English accent' door in this particular case, and the ribald merriment it caused, is entirely inappropriate.
And the CfExcellence allows for this to happen

You are all right. Thank you.

I'd also like to reassure voters about fairness on the day. My dad is a radical yesser, and is going to be manning a polling station on the day.Ie handing out the ballots and telling people which booth to use. He's done this role in local and general elections too.

Although his own views are strong, he utterly respects the democratic process and procedures on the day. He will be unfailingly helpful and polite to all voters, and pround to be taking part in this historic vote.

I really doubt there will be trouble at the polls.

MorrisZap [HUGE CHOCOLATE BAR]

That's really hard. I would vote. I would also be honest about it, but can understand why your DP is saying to lie to them. I hope that it all settles down for you on the family front once the vote is over.

Rubbishrobot if you want clarity try and watch the Dimbleby interviews that were on TV last night. Cut out the middle man and hear from those at the top!

Morris I'm sorry that your family are making you feel so awful. If it's any comfort, I really don't think that voting no is selfish or bad - I don't think a Yes will result in the wonderful socialist world they're dreaming of anyway.

I think in your boat I would vote no and just tell them what they wanted to hear. I'd normally say stand up and say what you think but it would clearly cause you a lot of heartache.

Here's a link to the Telegraph article about St.Andrews:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11100754/Revealed-Alex-Salmond-personally-pressurised-St-Andrews-University-head-over-independence-concerns.html

Rubbish - tis okay, I maybe didn't express myself clearly either.

I think these threads have been remarkably good tempered considering the heated debate going on
(and how sonar MN threads can go at times)

Let's all keep it that way

Thanks for the sensible suggestions here about what to respond if there is a baying mob in Royston tomorrow. I feel a bit calmer now. I think my experiences with the local Ed Dept have not helped my feelings of paranoia!

I freely admit to feeling desperate. It's not like a GE where it's depressing or kind of annoying to see the party or parties you voted against get in. I will be very upset to be made to leave the UK and have to watch the long negotiations over who gets what. I'd like to see UK resources shared across the UK. And I hate the idea of Scotland being in competiton with rUK. I'm sure the SNP have deliberately given the impression that an independent Scotland would be much more prosperous and much more quickly established than they they themselves think it will be, resulting in a lot of disillusioned yes voters in the event of gaining independence. I am angry because I believe that they have dishonestly persuaded people to vote for a pig in a poke.

Thank you Sallyingforth

Actually it's more like waiting for medical tests where one result will be a relief more than a cause to celebrate.

So right trixy

MindReader

Fix anyone who asks with a maniacal gleam while moving slightly closer to them and tell them you're anticipating divine guidance in the polling booth. That should work and you may not even have to ask them for their name and address 'so that we can visit you'.

I also believe that if we'd had a referendum before the recession there would have been a huge no majority. And the lib-dems coalition with the conservatives has made voters lose confidence in them as an alternative to the labour party. Very good timing for the independence cause at the cost of those voters who don't want to break up the uk. Such a pity IMO.

morris put them out of your mind and enjoy the privilege you have of your right to vote. In the privacy of the polling station, faced with your vote you will know your own mind.

Then deal with the crap and noise after it's all over .

mindreader Had you been anything other than English, there wouldn't have been any of the 'Ha ha ha' crap. 6 months in and he doesn't have any edplan, assessments or targets - it's a disgrace and I hope you can escalate this.

Morris I really hope you are right about the polls. However, I think there will be a bit of trouble tomorrow and much more on Friday. :(