Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

I suppose it's a pity the programme makers didn't just say that they couldn't get anyone to agree to be filmed declaring themselves as no voters. And leave it up to the viewer to think about why there weren't any no voters willing to be filmed.

Morris I get it.

morris sounds like you are between a rock and a hard place.
All you can do is follow your own instinct either way.
Good luck.

Thanks Bardar. I'm offski for now. Will check in later. X

The purposeful manipulation of "documentaries" does get my goat!

That was not what showing balance was meant to entail. Quick get me a banner I'm off to the beeb!

Earth I didn't say it wasn't happening - I accept that there have been incidents but you'd get the impression from here that it was widespread. I'm saying it's not.

Any outsider reading these threads would be thinking "oh those poor No supporters, they can't admit to how they're voting because they'll be abused or have their windows smashed and they'll get assaulted or shouted at when they go to vote. And if yes wins, people might find out they voted no and come to get them."

It's a tense time for everyone but don't get carried away.

Freddie what else could a statement of hope that the votes are stringently counted mean?

Morris
This is why the vote is so destructive, and I feel so sorry for everyone caught in this dilemma.
Apart from my very real sympathy, I can offer you just one piece of advice, a quotation from Hamlet:
"This above all: to thine own self be true"

Morris that is very tough. But your mum is right about using your vote - so please do vote.

If you don't think you could lie to your family, can you say something like 'I've found it a difficult decision and I don't want to talk about it anymore'?

I realise that may be clutching at straws ...

Just seen - for clarity -RubbishRobot

I did not imply and do not mean that I think the vote will be 'fixed'

I talked about voting in 'peace and privacy' and hoped the vote would be stringent - and seen to be stringent. Then NO side can cry 'foul' and we don't have to go through this whole farrago again.

There have been other posters expressing the same sentiment.

The part of Scotland I live in is well known for corruption.
I have experienced it (and know many others who have too) in two particular local areas, in health and education.

As for the village:
I think I may live in the Scottish equivalent of Royston Vasey.

Doesn't mean I think (or said!) the 'vote would be fixed' though!

I've spoken to a couple of people who have almost proudly informed me that they've never voted and they're not starting now. I just don't get that. This is one vote where every single vote cast has the same weight as any other one. And it is quite a bit more important than who you send to Westminster or Holyrood in the hope they will do things you approve of.

Morris you sound like you have the patience of a saint!

Tell your family, 'you brought me up to have faith in my convictions. I fully believe I made the right choice'. You shouldn't have to forego your right to vote in order to keep them sweet.

Morris could you feel ok "spoiling" your ballot?

Morriszapp, I've already said it, but I agree with your DP, just lie to them.

It's too important a decision to not vote.

Is it st andrews this one chocca
Daily Record link.

mindreader, in very reluctant defence of your DS's school, and having had a child who couldn't get to grips with phonics for years, accents do cause problems. It is not one accent causing the problem though it is the the difference between accents of the teacher and the pupil. Your son's teacher should have had the manners to explain that without denigrating one particular accent as, as far as your son is concerned, it is her accent that is the problem! Don't get me started on speech therapists + accents + speech difficulties!

Morris you could remind your family that going into the ballot booth in your case doesn't necessarily mean you voted no - perhaps you spoiled your ballot paper so as to have yourself registered as having turned out.

FWIW I'm not fully aligned with either side but leaning towards Yes. I am going mad having arguments with myself.

I just don't like political campaigns in general as the people leading them will always prioritise winning over sensible honest debate and there are always followers of any side who fail to apply any critical thinking.

OK MindReader apologies for misunderstanding.

RubbishRobot, I think on a thread as heated as this, it's good practice to first check with the poster to clarify what they meant, rather than jumping to conclusions. I took it at face value, that she hopes, as we all do, that the votes are stringently counted.

Thanks everybody. I really do hope to vote tomorrow.

Arrrgghgh, x-posts - Mind has answered your point.

Morris my family were very similar. Collecting for the miners, days out to Faslane Peace Camp. I completely understand where you are coming from. Dh and I who are wobbly noes feel that we are voting with our enemies against our friends. But please do vote. Whatever the outcome I think you might resent it in the future if you don't vote because you feel you have to agree with them.

I don't advertise which way I'm voting (anywhere but here that is!) not because I'm afraid, but because it's really nobody else's business but mine. I don't need to plaster my house with 'Yes' or 'No' posters as it's not my job to persuade or influence other voters on their decision. When asked by campaigners on the street (from both sides) how I'm voting, I just say that I have made my decision and will case my vote on the 18th in private, as is my right.

Everyone has access to the same information and they need (or should) base their decision on that. I hate all these posters and flags everywhere.

Morris nobody should feel pressured to vote to please someone else. That's not why we fought for democracy and female emancipation.

Vote how you want to and you will just have to stand up to your family if they insist on asking you. Good luck.

I get butterflies in my stomach every time I think of tomorrow. A bit like that excited feeling before going on a first date.

Although there will probably be slightly less snogging.