Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

Did you all see press release from Scottish Police Federation?
www.spf.org.uk/2014/09/spf-media-release-independence-referendum-2/

There was an assault on a man in EDinburgh after he'd left a Yes concert and was set upon by two yobs.

What hype Bardarbunga? Do you mean the mention of the assault?

That is a fact. I said that just to balance out all the talk of people being terrified of those awful thuggish Yes voters.

I also said I have seen no abuse, aggression, violence or vandalism towards either side, in my area of Leith.

They they're not very principled if they will say something then complain about being made to say it. Unlike the principal of St Andrews subjected to documented requests from the Scottish gov't to change what she had said.

IrnBru me neither.

Fanny, thanks for that, will have a read

I've seen that two men were arrested after the usher hall. I haven't seen it reported that it was No vs Yes violence explicitly.

I seriously doubt a yes voter who had 100% decided would change their view because a bbc producer told them to, for 'balance'

Irn like yourself on the previous thread a poster was wondering if we can trust this ballot to be run fairly.

I think the answer is a definite YES!

Oh I do mind I did post a while ago (threads ago infact!) that there may be corruption at the polls but we'll see. Hopefully it will go without a hitch tomorrow.

It's the telly though.

I would make it all a big point of principle (though I 'd have been boring on about a secret ballot probably ) would those men? Maybe it's only now we are in the middle of this that it seems important enough to say that's not what I wanted to say actually.

My comment was in response to MindReader who said:

"How do we KNOW we will be allowed to vote in peace and privacy and that the votes will be stringently counted?"

which I can only interpret as a concern about fixing the ballot. I've seen other comments along those lines on these Indyref threads too but I can't spend time looking for them just now as the baby has just widdled everywhere during nappy off time.

I have faith in Fanny and co!

I don't think there will be corruption tomorrow either.

RubbishRobot where has anyone said Yes are 'planning to fix the ballot' ?

^ please explain RubbishRobot

I haven't seen any abuse or aggression to anyone.

Just because you haven't seen it, it doesn't mean it hasn't/isn't happening.

People have seen posters etc vandalised. It is good that it hasn't happened near you but please don't think it isn't.

If the BBC had airs Kevin Bridges' friends all saying they were yes voters then they would have been accused of bias.

I agree that getting people to lie in order to apparently present all sides of an argument is not an acceptable solution.

FannyFifer thanks for the link, have just read it. I can't see masses of disorder tomorrow tbh. People will be in and out within minutes of casting their vote to get on with their daily lives.

well RubbishRobot you might ask MindReader to clarify rather than extrapolating that Yes are planning to fix the ballot - not helpful to either side at this point

'rather than extrapolating that some folk think that Yes are planning ...'

(goes to lie down)

No, I don't think there'll be disorder tomorrow either. Good that the police have made that statement.

Someone upthread thought that police would be on duty at polling stations in Central Belt, but haven't seen a report of this anywhere?

Ridiculous statements like that are not helping anyone. And as for the 'we were scared to put a sign up but it's not been vandalised yet' - so you mean 'our No sign hasn't been vandalised'

Yes. That's what I mean. I was originally going to write it without the 'yet' and thought it was tempting fate with another day or so to go TBH. Now that nothing has happened to it, I realise that I worried unnecessarily about DH putting it up. But it was the first No sign to go up in our street and I didn't know how people would react. We see vandalised No signs when we're out and about and lots of 'Yes' graffiti and stickers in town.

Its not your average yes voter or activist I was worried about anyway. It was folk who have had too much to drink on a Fri/Sat night. It just takes one alcohol-fuelled eejit to do something silly on either side.

But as I said in my post, I was also worried about falling out with people voting the other way. I'm the sort of person whose tendency is to not to want to piss people off (clearly I've failed where you are concerned ) so displaying political posters isn't something I'd choose to do. DH is less reserved.

So presumably the BBC employees couldn't find anyone willing to say on the telly that they were no voters - for whatever reason. So they ask some yes/undecided voters if they would be willing to declare themselves as no voters to give the impression that the programme makers have given no voters as well as yes voters the opportunity to be filmed. The yes/undecided voters agree. Then complain that they were made to do it. And claim BBC bias.

I don't think anything can be read into this story. Especially with no evidence.

I can't link to the article in The Telegraph where emails between the uni Saint Andrews principle and a Scottish government employee were published Does anyone have any thoughts on it?

Morriszapp

Vote, I'm a yes voter but it's absolutely not right that you feel pressured into not voting, the right to vote the way you want is so important.

Lie to those putting you under pressure if you need to, but don't abstain if you believe your vote is the right one.

I don't think there will be any disorder.
But there will be a lot of seriously disappointed people. Whichever way it goes, half the population of Scotland are going to have their futures decided against their wishes. That isn't good.

Thanks everybody for listening. Ok here goes.

I grew up in a wonderful, loving family of radical socialists. I attended protests, marches etc and grew up with radical leftism as my 'religion' (we are atheists).

I still agree with much of what I grew up with, and even when I disagree with my folks, I know they have the most pure intentions.

I have spent many years nodding and smiling as increasingly I don't follow the party line. It's so much easier than getting into an unwinnable debate with people who won't change their minds anyway.

I know my ballot is private, and DP wants me to vote and just lie to them. (saying 'its private' would just be letting them know I voted no. In my family we don't keep political views private).

I know it sounds as if my family are awful dictators but there are two sides to that too. Imagine if one of your loved ones said 'im joining the BNP'. To my family, a no vote is absolutely as appalling and wrong as that.

My family are truly lovely, highly intelligent people. I see them daily and I simply cannot fall out with them.

If they know I voted no then I would be blamed for everything that ever goes wrong again. If I don't vote at all then my mum will be outraged as she is also a radical feminist who thinks women must, must, must use our hard won franchise.

It's all just so complicated. It's making feel ill, but I know lots of yes voters also feel ill and upset around this referendum too. I sympathise with the yes vote. I wish I was a yes voter, it looks fun. But I'm not, because I don't believe it's the best thing for Scotland.

Pass the chocolate. . And thanks for reading if you got this far.

Latte - thank you for your comments. x

I suppose I might say Yes if feeling very pressured outside the Polling Station. I would not choose to say Yes ordinarily if voting NO, but privately afterwards might say I had felt pressured.

Of course, dear ds will tell anyone what I vote anyway, bless him, so my elaborate 'cover up' plans will probably be in vain anyway.

I have seen very little pressure to vote NO in Scotland atm whereas I do have quite a bit of experience now of pressure re Yes / ethnic racism (which a person on another thread told me was my fault for putting myself in an 'ethnic ghetto' by not encouraging my children to speak with 'local' enough accents !!!!!!!! I think that is a 'bad taste' use of the term ghetto really and my other child speaks with a 'right local' accent anyway.

I do hope that the Usher Hall incident had no NO voters involved.
That would be shameful.

Yes, feelings are running high.
Yes, people are 'passionate'
But we all have to live with each other after Friday morning and it could be a hell of a hangover at this rate.