Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

A friend just shared this on facebook, it's a really interesting breakdown of some of the regions and what their individual voting outcome might indicate:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/17/-sp-scotland-key-battlegrounds-scottish-independence

No Whisky (sorry, but it's ghastly stuff ) but I do have Rum (not Scottish but essential) & some Scottish shortbread - along with some other bits & pieces to get us through tomorrow night.

Those who are staying up - which channels or websites etc will you be watching?

This one obviously

I'll go and have a look at that NC

LatteLoverLovesLattes

Hah!

He can't vote as he's not an EU / Commonwealth citizen, but he is pro-Yes. I think it would be really hard to disagree within a couple on this issue, though I know some do.

Interesting NC and I'm in a key battleground.

I noticed that the piece you linked to contains a further link on the bottom left for a likely Shetland bid for independence itself (with its oil and facilities) in the event of a yes vote? While the author of the piece may be argued to be partial I think that that resonates with my knowledge of the Shetlanders themselves and particularly having regard to their recent confabulations and planning with Orkney and the Western Isles.

NC sadly quite a few on this thread. I think there might be quite a few divorces post referendum :( At least you and DH can be pissed off or happy together, there's a lot to be said for that.

That's a great over view, I'll have another read of it in the morning, it's a bit much for the brain to retain right now! FABULOUS photos though! We spent 3 weeks in Scotland and loved every day. We covered far far too much and want to come back just to 'spend time' there, but there's always that oh I want to go there :) and there and there and there and there and there...

Bad whisky is ghastly indeed Latte so you need a bottle of good stuff. Get yourself in a nice reasonably aged malt and you'll never have another evening like it!

OneNight

Yes, I saw that r.e. Shetland. To be fair, as always the headline is much more stark than the article, which talks in terms of needing to have that conversation etc. And I think it's right - that conversation does need to be had if there is a Yes vote. And it would be pretty churlish of Yes supporters to deny to same choice for the Shetlands if that makes sense?

OneNight I spent a few nights in various castles in Scotland, being plied with the best, I'm afraid it all left me cold. However, maybe I need to come up again and have another try, I slept well There's nothing like sitting there with an Earl and trying not to gag on his very expensive whisky. Perhaps I need to come up and see some of my new mates and be shown some Proper Whisky

This passage in another Guardian article made me laugh:

^Charlie Jeffery, professor of politics at the University of Edinburgh, believes that even if politicians wanted a second referendum, it is unlikely to be shared by the Scottish public.

"If you asked the people of Scotland if they wanted another referendum in another couple of years I think the result would be an impolite one," he said.^

There was some talk on a previous thread of fears of a neverendum but I do think the "impolite" answer to another referendum in the next 10 years or so would be equally loud on both sides. This is not the kind of thing anyone wants to do regularly!

Do we think StatisticallyChallenged is finally sleeping?

If not do you fancy doing a spreadsheet using this list?

The expected times of Referendum results by voting area:
1 Comhairle nan Eilean Siar 02:00
2 North Lanarkshire 02:00
3 Inverclyde 02:00
4 Orkney 02:00
5 East Lothian 02:00
6 Perth & Kinross 02:00
7 Moray 02:00
8 Clackmannanshire 02:30
9 West Dunbartonshire 03:00
10 Dumfries & Galloway 03:00
11 Angus 03:00
12 South Lanarkshire 03:00
13 East Renfrewshire 03:00
14 Dundee 03:00
15 Falkirk 03:00
16 Renfrewshire 03:00
17 East Ayrshire 03:00
18 Aberdeenshire 03:00
19 Stirling 03:00
20 Midlothian 03:30
21 Argyll & Bute 03:30
22 West Lothian 03:30
23 South Ayrshire 03:30
24 Shetland 03:30
25 East Dunbartonshire 03:30
26 Fife 04:00
27 Highland 04:00
28 North Ayrshire 04:30
29 Scottish Borders 05:00
30 Edinburgh 05:00
31 Glasgow 05:00
32 Aberdeen 06:00

??

Slight tangent here but if I hear or see another debate on how difficult it is for poor pollsters to call this referendum I'm going to implode. So much angst over how irritating it is when previously politically inactive people suddenly decide to participate. The damn cheek of them eh?

NC Yes, I'm guessing people wouldn't want another one in a hurry and to a certain extent, it's not going to do anyone any favours treating this one like it's only binding if it's a 'yes' because people's lives will be in turmoil and half of the 'bad stuff' will end up happening anyway if they think another referendum is on the horizon and the Union can't be trusted to remain that way.

I don't know how we got here now tbh.

I think that the problem for you Latte might have been that people tend to have their favourite whisky or whisky type and the ones you were given may not have been the best for you. (They are quite distinctively different depending on several factors and some of them can for example almost taste medicinal to someone who is not a fan.)

Perhaps you should have a whisky tasting if you can find someone to drive you home? Finding the right one might be a challenge but is well worth it.

wheels yep, like that's the most important thing, whether they can predict it or not?! They need to collectively get over themselves.

Can you create a google spreadsheet without the meta-data providing the real name of the original creator? I'd be happy to put together a spreadsheet that could be regularly updated as results come in. Mumsnet Referendum Reporting etc.

I think the pollsters are crapping themselves that they'll be embarrassed by the result. Their reputations will be hugely undermined if the winning side wins by a large margin, their methodologies will be called into question.

If everywhere but Glasgow votes no, can we tell them to go it alone as a city state?

But seriously large regional variations in the vote could be problematic.

I am not looking forward to tomorrow/today at all. But then I do have a long and unpleasant dental appointment too - so maybe it isn't all about the referendum.

DH will want to move back to England if there's a yes vote - I'll be tempted, but also curious to see how things change. But we don't really have the resources to move. If yes win, I hope they are right about everything being all right on the night (and for the next x years). Please if it does go to yes, get Gordon Brown and his contacts working on what the best solution is vis a vis the currency/debt/economy. I'm not convinced about the White Paper at all.

It's going back a bit... but with the discussion about the Greens up thread... I'm a green sympathiser... but I've been getting more and more frustrated with Patrick Harvey, who the Yes campaign has been happy to have a high profile to get the green/lefty vote, but they have been rubbish about supporting Green ideas. It got to the point that Patrick has started sounding like them on the currency union etc. It's just wrong. Keep your distinctive voice Greens.

Emotionally... I feel that Scotland hasn't really thought about what it is giving up. I was in London a couple of weeks ago (first time in years, I don't travel much) and in Devon visiting family. I loved it. I love being part of the same country. London is my capital city just as much as Edinburgh is, I'd hate to be forced to give it up. It feels like it belongs to me, our elected representatives sit there, and it's an amazing place. My sister has recently moved there to live and she loves it.

On the flag, practically I can't see it changing. The UK has had it for so long I think it will want to keep it and it's used in the corner of many other countries flags.

onenight I will try to remember the name of the place we stayed. He must have had around 40 for us to try (supposedly of all types) and over 2 nights we managed :) Maybe that was the problem! I'll have to get some proper MN advice when I come up of where to go and how to try a good range!

OnNight

Yep, Latte - your Earl may well have been a peat man, which is never a good start for a new whisky drinker. Something sweet and light like Edradour is where I'd probably start you...

Apologies for using the thread to convert you to the whisky cause.

I'd definitely be going for dual citizenship, I don't think the British Government would prevent it.

NC I don't know. I'd offer to do the SS myself, but my ancient laptop is barely holding up. I can only have two tabs open at once and nothing else running! I'm just hoping it holds out until after the weekend - else it will be an impulse buy!

squoosh - I 'get' why they are worried, but for crying out loud, they are ALL in the same position and it's such an unusual event - surely no one actually expects them to be able to predict the outcome?

Sorry, Latte, cross-posted! 40 whiskies sounds like blissfull tasting overload!

I think a lot of people do expect them to be accurate. So much store has been placed on the various poll results that their image would definitely be dented. A poll is a poll whether it's a referendum or a general election.

If a polling company can't poll well then what's their point?

(I've said 'poll' too many times)