Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

It was linked upthread deeedeee, it was actually what prompted my response.

However, just for you, here's my thoughts (sorry, quick and not especially articulate!):

-Her explanation of Prospect theory is shocking
-The point of austerity was reducing the deficit not paying the debt off
-The UK is not bankrupt, she needs to learn what bankrupt means.
-yup, contracted out NHS services are generally financially inefficient. But when England does it, it benefits us. When Scotland does it, it's stupid. And we are doing it. So moot point
-I'd expect financial services to be well leveraged given that's how they work.
-The bank bailout was primarily in the form of direct investment, which is being paid back (see Lloyds share sale recently) or in loans. Which are being paid back. That money has not been lost to the public purse in the long run
-Devaluing the pound will do us so much good when we're a net exporter. Although to saw we have no substantial exports suggests she doesn't actually have a clue about the UK economy
-we have an awful lot of differences to Spain and Greece. Not least - full control of our own currency
-Scotland has not run a surplus for the last 30 years. Last year alone the primary balance (which excludes lots of things and doesn't include full expenditure) was -£4.5 billion. Not a surplus. yes, that's including the oil.
-House prices in Scotland - depending on which figures you use they went up between 7.5% and 10% last year. We're still recovering from the crash as a whole. As is the rest of the UK on average. Both have pockets of recovery.
-Her line about TTIP and the NHS budget is nonsense
-No, it's not in the interests of rUK for us to keep the pound. Her attempt at analysing this is pitiful
-If she thinks banks not domiciling here won't affect corporation tax I think she's hit the same crazy branch as Alex Salmond did
-Yes, having no banks at all is a great idea. Of course it is. How much thought exactly did you give that?
-We won't be using that £15bn (which was a top end estimate) to start a state owned investment bank. We'll need it for currency reserves to keep us functioning when we are either using sterlingisation or a pegged currency.
-Moody's said we;d have a CR at least 3 notches below the UK. Not excellent really
-We are beholden to debt, not all of our debt is central government and we are running a very significant deficit. Not sure how far she thinks that £15bn is going to go when that was our overall excess expenditure last year.

I'm not sure I have the energy to read much more of it. It's an extremely poor analysis. But she appears to have no economic or financial background from her about me page.

starwars
GB was shit because he, as chancellor, created the bubble by changing the law in myriad ways linked to FCCs and ACT and MCT rates and PFI and non balance sheet financing and zero secitity endowment.

the crash was the logical outcome of the policies
some of which started with Lawson / Thatcher / Reagan
but which he gleefuly continued without undestanding
he packed number 11 with expers on free secondment from the big accountancy firms

Ah typical, I spend ages answering DeeeDeee and she's gone

Well actually no. Those posts were sentimental and heartstringy..plainly..much in the same way NO voters decry YES voters as being all 'BraveHearty' (gawd) and not based in argument and evidence. So I don't mind pointing those qualities out when I see them tbh.

I'm watching the The Great British Break Up on Channel 4. I think I might finally be reaching C.R.O (critical referendum overload)

Whisky is the only cure for CRO squoosh. Do you have your bottle ready?

It's like one of those films - see you on the other side!

I feel weepy tonight too. Can't believe it's tomorrow.

But, PansotherPeople that may be true where you dwell but here, on these threads there have been no accusations of being "brave hearty" or anything. We have just had great debates and lots and lots of facts, some interesting links and articles.

I don't have any whisky, but I've just poured myself a fortifying vodka and tonic.

I've stopped bawling now I've seen the polls.

Well actually no. Those posts were sentimental and heartstringy..plainly..much in the same way NO voters decry YES voters as being all 'BraveHearty' (gawd) and not based in argument and evidence. So I don't mind pointing those qualities out when I see them tbh.

Stereotyping helps no one. If you have read all the threads you will see that many people have on both sides have been rightly asked to not do it.

Embarrassing confession: last night dh and I watched 'Castles in the Sky' about the Scottish scientist who developed radar which helped win the Battle of Britain. At the end I cried because I was so upset thinking about how much good we have done together as one country and how a bunch of bigots want to throw it all away. My dh thought I was mad

That doesn't go Squoosh, it's gin and tonic or vodka and cranberry orange
Philistine

My head hurts after reading that!

A philistine.....with a bottle of Grey Goose!

Lucky you, cheers, I'm afraid I've succumbed to pink wine.

I think Brian Cox is having a coronary on Channel 4.

pink wine? For shame.

I'd gulp that bad boy down too.

Good night - to all you lovely, strong, clever women who have given so much on these threads and certainly helped me to understand.

Good luck - and whatever the result we will make the best of it - wherever we are in the UK

X

Has someone told him he'd have to actually live in the country he's trying to influence?

I think Brian Cox is having a coronary on Channel 4.

Me too .

We don't invest in your heartstringy stuff, and Union-laden sadness, we want something better for ourselves, not what Westminster delivers

........................

What a spiteful response ... but why am I not surprised. Not even very original - the old 'Westminster' shite again, surprised you didn't get 'scaremongering' and 'conspiracy' in there as well.

For what it's worth ....

I'm not asking you or anyone else to invest in any heart-stringy stuff or Union-laden sadness as you so succinctly describe it. I'm telling you what it's like for the almost 60 million of us outside Scotland who are watching this car crash take place in front of our eyes and can do nothing to prevent it.

When I see bile laden comments like yours, it doesn't surprise me to see attitudes are hardening among ordinary people elsewhere in the UK. You aren't only alienating your fellow Scots, you are alienating the rest of us and I don't mean the politicians, I mean the ordinary bloke in the street ... and that is becoming increasingly clear with every day that passes and we have to stand on the sidelines and watch this unfolding.

it's not all about you and what you want. That's the part that you don't seem to understand. You aren't the centre of the universe, although Mr Salmond seems to be labouring under the delusion that you are, and that you and your wants and demands must come before, over and above those of anyone else. Might I remind you that you share an island with 60 million other people who you appear to have forgotten exist.

If the UK is going to carved up because of what you and those like you want and demand .... if this island is going to be cut in half because of what you and those like you want and demand with your over inflated sense of entitlement .... then it's going to be carved up fairly and that's something else I don't think your esteemed leader seems to understand. It's not going to be carved up how he and you deem it should be, because there are people, a lot more people, many times the number of people who don't think, feel and behave as you do, who need to be factored into the equation. And we will be. You can rest assured on that.

How's that for a bit of scaremongering for you?

I said in my very first post on here last Saturday when I joined this discussion, that it was time for Scotland to go, and it was your fellow Scots the brilliant women I have encountered on this thread - funny, intelligent, concerned, anxious, scared, brave, asking questions, providing answers, sharing anecdotes, making me laugh and yes, making me cry with their heart felt (or should that be heart stringy) posts.

I can understand you not giving a shit about my 'union laden sadness' but what about theirs?

Talkin

Oh come on. Sub prime, traders bundling dodgy stuff etc
Alastair Darling saved the UK. And he was the starting point for the US to bail the banks
Funny that now I'm calling him out on it, but he is too wrapped up in the establishment to see the wood from the tree from his lovey Morningside mansion

Night all. Going to try and get some sleep.

Big day tomorrow