Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

Who exactly are "the informed"?

Yes, lets - I mean, there has been so much kindness shown so far, hasn't there??

This referendum has divided Scotland like no WM Govt ever could. This is not a kind place anymore, this is a bitter country presided over by a smug, self satisfied little man who is whipping the crowds up into a Nationalist frenzy, making empty promises and giving no real answers.

That really is a heavily compromised post there Fontella. A bit heartstringy and also denying the nature of democracy. "That's when it hits you"...yes, a whole bunch of people are possibly saying "We don't invest in your heartstringy stuff, and Union-laden sadness, we want something better for ourselves, not what Westminster delivers."

Calm down SirC. Emotions are running very high in the country and it behoves all of us to be extra specially careful I think.

Hello everyone, hope you're all OK and not as sick with nerves as me, although I think you probably are. What an incredible time to be living through.

I'd like to add stat's essential reading with this lauracameronlewis.wordpress.com/2014/09/16/a-risk-assessment-of-the-future-uk/ curious as to your opinion on it too stat.

Yes it's down to one odious little man that the SNP had a land-slide, it was nothing to do with Scottish people's will that brings us here...

I love the word 'behoves'. I'm going to slip that into a conversation tomorrow.

Ummmm, we've had Laura's words of wisdom already. I think the collective thumbs pointed downwards.

deee how very strange, someone else linked to it just up there ^

To call it "a bit heartstringy" is incredibly patronising. There are those of us who feel exactly as Fontella describes it - and it's a reality. We really could have our nationality and our flag stripped from us and our countries split apart because of a tiny percentage of the population who are voting now, at this minute in time. The majority of younger voters are voting No and yet they won't get a chance to vote again in a few years - they will be left with something they don't want because of a decision that was made in 2014. Democracy should be something that is an ongoing process - not a snapshot in time.

"no real answers"..like the Westminster 3 have been really clear on the detail of the promises of the late/desperate 'more powers' thing?

I think arguing that a vote in Scotland will have a huge emotional impact across the whole of the realm (and beyond) is surely something both campaigns could agree on PansotherPeople

Pansotherpeople
When Australia has an election, all of those born in Australia HAVE to vote = wherever in the world they live.
Those not born in Australia cannot vote

in this "election"
those with hundreds of years of Scottish heritage but happening to live elsewhere in 2014 get no vote
but those from anywhere else who happen to be within the borders tomorrow get a vote, regardless of their place of birth

UNLESS the margin is 15% for king Alec, its worth squat
and will set the standard of how NOT to run such a "spectacle"

pans

If both sides are spinning a line, I know who I'll go for.
Just to add my voice to those above, I'll always be British and Scottish.

I like shortbread. In the event of a yes vote I will have to shop carefully...
I will be checking out packaging- Devon shortbread?
I would be nervous to holiday in Scotland too.
Maybe Whitby this year?

I won't be popping 'heartstringy' into a conversation. It's not quite on the same level as 'behoves'.

What is breathtaking about the BT campaign is that they bring in Brown, who, according to them, has been the most toxic politician in the UK for years, The coalition parties colluded in the lie that Brown and Darling created the financial crisis, Milliband post election distanced himself.

Do they all think we are completely dense when they wheel him out again,just because he is a Scot?

it screamed 'heartstringy'.

by 'on-going process', it's been on-going for decades/hundereds of years...unless by that you mean 'on-going until we get the eventual vote we like. Then it stops.'
Democratic votes are always snap shots. This will be no different.

Pan If you can point me to the answers (as in answers with details and figures) to currency, my pension, my job, NHS funding, taxation, oil reserves and all the other questions that the SNP have dodged whilst building their entire campaign and the future of an inde Scotland on then I will accept that I have misjudged them.

Ach well, better than wheeling out a convicted perjurer to try and get to the hard socialist vote eh?

yes heartstringy is really cumbersome. 'Sentimentality' much more succinct.

starwars
as I said above
Broon was a shit UK chancellor
Broon was a shit UK Prime minister
BUT
he has not done a Bliar for the last 4 years (too darned bruised methinks) and has come out on an issue in which he is eloquent with all guns spectacularly blazing.
He may well be the "right" person to lead scotland back together from Friday ...

How about simply "important to many" as opposed to trying to belittle how we feel about the possibility of having our nationality stripped from us?

To borrow some basketballing parlance, Brown's speech today was a slam dunk.

Can I just draw your attention to the other 12 threads PansOtherPeople because we are all tired, and emotional and a bit nervous and fed up? You seem to have arrived, all feisty like, and for some of us, this is not just a political thing. For me, it is visceral, I feel it in my guts, and my bones. Someone earlier compared it to an exam but, to be honest, you usually have a sense of how you have done in an exam, it is a choice, you can work hard to make it go right. Someone else though, compared it to getting medical test results where you could be fine, you could be very ill.

I think it is most like the second - like when I had amino for my DD who might have been very unwell. It took 3 weeks and there wasn't a bloody thing I could do to make those cells grown, change things. I read, I researched, I chatted - but it was all out of my hands. But she could have been very sick and she would have died.

In the end, she was fine and DH has just returned from a bit of a praise fest for her at school. But it was hard. This is bloody hard. I am bloody British and really proud of it. Mo Farah. Strawberries. Tablet. Wet picnics with wasps. Bloody, fucking British and some fuckers are trying to take that away.

Sorry, as you were. Read the other 12 threads for wonderful analysis, a few misjudged comments, some amazing posters.

But don't ever, ever belittle people's feelings.