Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

YES WE CAN
Yes, we can set impossible goals
Yes, we can disappoint our greatest supporters
yes, we can back away from all our promises to the world

YO! ALEC
Obama did it first

and he's had his ass in the fire ever since

and Alec, you reckon people will fall for your version of "the dream" ?

Sheep like audience will fall for dream...

Sorry combust that's crap. Ignore him, easier said than done I know!

My preferred essential reading for the undecided:

Credit Suisse
Deutsche bank

And if you fancy some extras, try the IFS report which confirms that the Scottish Government have cut NHS spending whilst it has gone up elsewhere. Or Mark Carney's comments where he highlights that we would need at least £30-odd billion in reserves. Or you could try Sir Ian Woods report where he highlights that the Scottish Govs oil estimates are 45-65% too high.

combust22

Tomorrow is another day and this doesnt mean the end because things are strained all over Scotland. Stay loose and vote if you can although your position is difficult as for so many others. People are often not acting in character on this one.

YES WE CAN

Perhaps they have been channelling Bob the Builder

Wiggly, don't think much of that article.

There is no way that this data can be spun any other way, this is not a lie.  The UK is bankrupt

Not true, not in the slightest. If this is her "mathematical analysis" then God help her.

Just reading bits of AS speech. Where has all this rhetoric about being friends and holding hands with UK come from? Has this been part of the message all along or is this to counter the negative reactions to his campaign from elsewhere.

He must have been told to stop sneering and appear more cuddly in order to mop up some undecideds.

No, they aren't - but senior SNP politicians (yep, I am pointing the finger of blame at Mr Slamond and his ilk) are leading by (poor) example. He should be utterly ashamed of his behaviour - there is no decorum or propriety, just bullish, loutish, smuggery.

Mr Salmond asked voters to step back from the political arguments and statistics that have defined the two-year campaign and trust in themselves as they go into the polling booth

What he meant was, Never mind how the numbers and information I gave you don't add up, chase your dream, said Mr Salmond

That was in response to OneNight's last post

Laura Eaton Lewis who is "an activist, part of the New Leadership Assembly, Director of The Work Room, artist, writer, and member of the Scottish Greens"

Good grief - some people would actually read that and fall for it?? Really?

The big bookmakers will be offering the same odds across the country, it's not in their interests to offer better odds in one area than another. If they have "No" at shorter odds it is reflecting the sum total of bets across their customer base.

Yes thats what I meant due to the smaller population in Scotland.

Yes chase your dream is so much sexier than use your brain :(

SirC

It's true that some people are not behaving well. There's a strangeness about the times though so I'm making exceptions I guess for those people who might not be used to such.

Apparently Nick Robinson is getting booed and jeered by the crowd in Perth. All very creepy, this slavish defence of Salmond.

Deutsche Bank? That will be the same bank then that recently got fined a shed load of money - for financial mismanagement. And owe Westminster.

Goodness, I've read a bit more of that article by Laura Cameron Lewis and it gets worse and worse.

I despair. Truly.

Yes, they really would. But again, it's all part of the vision where we all trade in, um....things....and have jobs doing stuff, and a health service built on crystals, and everyone will love us because we're Scots controlling our own destiny right down the pan

There have been lines in most AS' speeches about being friends with the UK, being good neighbours, etc. They've tended to be overshadowed by other parts but it's been a small but recurrent message throughout.

And I hope that you'll all make exceptions for me on Friday when I'll either be badly hungover or still canned to the wide and looking for 23.

Really curious about how a bunch of the 'informed' get so keen to tell Scotland how self-damaging a Yes vote would be, without previously giving any consideration for Scotland. Smells massively of the 'informed' being more than a bit self-interested. Which strongly suggests Scotland is far more valuable than is being admitted.
If it's strong enough to stand on it's own feet is another question, but it does rather undermine the No campaign.

And of course the Devomax position is rather laughable. Compounded by the lack of detail being offered. Westminster has only paid any attention since last weekend - and all they are offering is a quick fix of unreliable natures in order to maintain a status quo for their self interest.

Dear friends, whatever the outcome we have the choice to always be kind to each other, that is really the best result. Do think carefully, but once the votes are counted and the results announced lets still be kind to each other.

How surreal this all is actually hit me today.

I had to go to a small neighbouring town on a work related matter. Beautiful day, driving along, lovely countryside .. came down into the town and this is a really lovely place, riverside location, castle, tea rooms and restaurants, boat trips, loads of historical buildings - always attracts a lot of visitors from all parts of the UK and overseas. They have an arts, music and food festival late August that lasts a couple of weeks and the place is buzzing. They put those lamp-post banners up and union flags - sort of clipped onto the lamposts - I'm sure you know the ones I mean and they are all still up everywhere. I'm not going to say where I am, but it's in another part of the realm let's say. A part where we have no vote and no say and can only be spectators in all this.

I'm driving into this little town with the union flags flying and I'm thinking to myself - people .... there may be tens of thousands of them, there may be hundreds of thousands of them, or they may be just a few hundred, or just a handful - depending what a majority for 'Yes' might be, if there is one ... and because of what they mark on a ballot paper tomorrow - this little town may never be able to put up these flags again. They've got no say in it, no control over it .. it's being decided a long way away by a very small percentage of the population of the UK. And it could be very small indeed. A single vote in fact.

And that's when it hits you.

I am a great believer in democracy but something isn't quite right here .. how all this upheaval and division and disruption and uncertainty and anxiety for all of us - in Wales, and in England and in Ireland and of course, not least Scotland itself because there are lots of people who don't want this either up there - can happen because of what one person may put on a ballot paper in a village hall or a school hall somewhere in Scotland?