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Original poster

Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

999 replies

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 08:42

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

OP posts:
LatteLoverLovesLattes · 17/09/2014 21:17

Tunnocks I am as guilty as anyone of not getting involved sooner. It seemed 'so far away' and then suddenly it was upon us (well those of us south of the border anyway!). Then nothing seemed to be being sorted out re currency etc so I (wrongly) assumed that the people of Scotland would be saying 'NO thanks' to this mash of mush - try again! But when the 'yes' vote began creeping up reality set in and it was a case (for me anyway) of OH FUCK REALLY - what can we do?? Not about Scotland wanting their independence, but about them being told to walk off a cliff and trust Alex Salmond :( Then I read more and more and more about it like this Shock and haven't been able to let it alone since. The whole of the UK is on the knife edge of recession - none of us need this, least of all Scotland alone.

Original poster
StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 21:19

I genuinely think so TunnocksCW. Some folk will lose their enthusiasm once the big vote is over, of course. But some, quite a large number, won't. I'm one of them actually - the run up this has really made me question what I want to do work wise and how I want to "contribute to society" (barf I know). But I don't see me just losing interest in how our country is run once the vote is over.

OP posts:
dodo3 · 17/09/2014 21:20

If Scotland wins will all Scottish children have to pay full fees to go to Uni in England?

AnnieHoo · 17/09/2014 21:20

Latest poll: No 47% Yes 41% Don't Know 12% Carried out by Survation for Better Together t.co/Z7fdmuzI6g

OneNight · 17/09/2014 21:21

I agree.

AnnieHoo · 17/09/2014 21:22

Watching AS in Sky live speech from Perth.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 17/09/2014 21:23

AnnieHoo Yes :( I really, really feel for you all who don't want this. Not just for what I believe it will do to your economy, but the fact that you are having your British Identity stripped from you against your wishes. It is beyond sad. I can't imagine being in your position :( Flowers

Cambiodenombre · 17/09/2014 21:26

Every time I think no looks like it will scrape it I see pictures of rally's and meetings from yes and think that they could actually do it. I get that people feel disenfranchised from WM, I get the desire for greater autonomy but I just can't understand how so many people are willing to take a risk like this despite all the warnings. I just don't get it

OneNight · 17/09/2014 21:26

There's something very fundamental about your nationality and that's an issue that many of us haven't had to face in our lifetimes and our country hasn't had to face since WW2 probably. I'm not surprised that people are rocked by the issue.

TunnocksCW · 17/09/2014 21:26

Forgive me for being cynical and thinking this is Just More Shit that we don't need, everyone's lives are getting harder and this vote isn't going to change anything either way as it is being imposed when no one is ready. 50% going to be scared/pissed of either way and that is not going to go away.

Original poster
StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 21:26

dodo3 tuition fees are more of an issue for students in Scotland. At the moment we don't pay tuition fees in Scotland, but we do have significant tuition fees for English students.

EU law says that you can't discriminate against students from other member states. So people from other EU states get free tuition fees in Scotland, but not people from other parts of the UK. We get away with this because EU law doesn't prevent discrimination within a member state. If Scotland became independent and then joined the EU then to comply with law we would have to either a) charge Scottish students tuition fees or b) not charge English students fees. Which would be unfeasible because of the size differential as we'd be swamped.

Alex Salmond of course says there would be special rules for Scotland and we wouldn't have to do this. But we're gonna have a currency union, and automatic EU and Nato membership, and, and, and Grin

OP posts:
WildThong · 17/09/2014 21:26

annie can I guess he isn't getting shouted down, but actually allowed to speak?

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 17/09/2014 21:26

SirChenjin ^ what I said to Annie Flowers Wine

WildThong Wine Cake that must have been really awful. All of my family are south of the border. I haven't discussed it with any of them because I know it would end up in a row. None of them get to vote, so it's not a row worth having. I really feel for those of you forced into discussing it x

TillHammerZeit · 17/09/2014 21:27

I feel the same way,Anniehoo,re possibly having my British identity taken from me,against my will. I'm very much proud of being Scottish,but I'm equally proud of being British.

I've stayed out of the debates on MN as I come here to relax,and have fun,but it is constantly on my mind,and I'm extremely apprehensive about tomorrow.

AnnieHoo · 17/09/2014 21:28

I burst into tears when I think about it.

TunnocksCW · 17/09/2014 21:29

Sorry about that. I guess me getting passionate is allowing my dour Scot genes to get the better of me.

Original poster
StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 21:29

Tunnocks I genuinely think that the economic evidence suggests independence will make the life of the average person in Scotland harder. I'm not just saying that - I don't see how the result can be anything other than worse. And more so for the poorest who rely most on state run services which will have to be cut.

OP posts:
SirChenjin · 17/09/2014 21:30

OneNight - I have been stockpiling the sleeping tablets. I intend to have a great night's sleep and waken either to celebrate or plan our future south of the border or beyond.

Cambiodenombre · 17/09/2014 21:30

What is the position re nationality? Do we know? Can they actually strip you of it or would you have to take on dual citizenship? If you keep British citizenship presumably you still get access to embassies etc?

TillHammerZeit · 17/09/2014 21:31

I'm avoiding the television because I can't bear to look at Alex Salmond's face.

AnnieHoo · 17/09/2014 21:31

He's having his Obama moment WildThong . Oh god they're shouting "yes we can!"

FrankelandFilly · 17/09/2014 21:31

WildThong the bookies are shortening the odds for a no vote based on the sheer amount of money coming in, particularly from the big hitters. These are people with more money than sense who routinely bet six-figure sums so they must think they're right. It's far easier to bet on something that can only go one of two ways, unlike a horse race!

Original poster
StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 21:31

In theory we should still be British citizens but it's not 100% confirmed. We should be allowed dual citizenship but...

OP posts:
LatteLoverLovesLattes · 17/09/2014 21:32

Tunnocks you are right. It is Shit We Don't Need x

This fucking Utopia he is promising :(

:(

Really, if people wont listen to the fact that he can't just decide those things himself and that he can't make those promises work what can you do?

Absolutely fucking nothing :( It's like watching lambs being led to slaughter.

WildThong · 17/09/2014 21:32

Dh suspects it'll be France for him, I'll stay here as dc in higher year, so basically it will split the family.