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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

999 replies

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 08:42

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

OP posts:
Original poster
StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 20:49

That must be tough if you are undecided combust22

OP posts:
WhatWouldFreddieDo · 17/09/2014 20:51

lol at combusts other half Grin

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 17/09/2014 20:52

FF My thought process is that if you are unsure about Independence, you are likely to go with the status quo that would be the common sense approach, let's hope common sense prevails.

There has been a lot of discussion re the bookies - some feel that they're just doing it for the publicity?! God only knows and only time will tell.

Combust Grin It's nice that people are excited to be involved. I am right in assuming he's a 'yes' voter?

combust22 · 17/09/2014 20:53

Sta- I find it hard to understand how anyone can be sure- unless we have a crystal ball. I am disatisfied by the way scotland is treated, but so many loose threads - my heart tells me yes but me head tells me no.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 17/09/2014 20:53

Oh I don't know SC at least he'll be out of the house & not mithering on at her Grin

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 17/09/2014 20:56

People need to be voting with their heads. It's the heads that think about the issues... the heart just wants freedom, independence, the excitement of it all... of course it's a 'more fun' option, but so is playing chicken on the motorway - adrenalin spiking for sure, but fucking stupid all the same!

Yama · 17/09/2014 20:56

I'm so excited I can hardly watch Bake Off.

combust22 · 17/09/2014 20:58

latte- he's a no actually.

Original poster
StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 20:59

Ha very true Latte!

As you've probably gathered from the threads I'm a pretty definite No. The biggest reason for me is that there are far too many uncertainties. The plans don't make sense, they've been shown to be utter nonsense in numerous areas. They've never made sense really. The currency issue is a really huge one and the way they have dealt with it is diabolical.

I've said before (I think on other thread) that maybe there will come a time when I’ll look at Scotland and think “you’re in a great position to thrive as an independent nation.” But that time is not now, not with these policies, these economics, these huge lies and not with half of the population opposed and a bitter division opening up.

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TunnocksCW · 17/09/2014 21:03

I find it interesting that we are even in this position and only when it looked like Yes was ahead was everyone suddenly galvanised and getting heated about it. Does this mean no one expected Yes to get anywhere or that people are excited about actual change happening?

I am not scared of things changing but I don't believe in magic wands or tooth fairy money either. I'm still on the fence but I will be voting.

OneNight · 17/09/2014 21:04

He'll be looking to his 'Where were you when?' moment combust so you'll just have to bear with him and keep him from wearing his pass for days and boring everyone with his tales for the next month!

I do hope that you all resolve your issues though. It's dreadful to have completely No Go areas in a family on something as large and as fundamental as this. (You can usually avoid references to iguana breeding or geranium propagation over tea!)

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 17/09/2014 21:05

combust Oh really - that's even lovelier in a way Grin

Driving home today I thought, 'I wonder if one day I will be telling my grandchildren about how things were before Scotland became independent, when we were all part of the UK and shared the Union Flag. How we stayed up all night watching the votes coming in...'

It was very sobering and very emotional. There's no way I'll be going to bed tomorrow night. I'm glad I have you lot to share it with as all my family and friends down here think I'm mad.

lem73 · 17/09/2014 21:07

I think things got heated up when a lot of people saw the Yes vote lead in the polls for the first time, realised independence was a possibility and were appalled at the thought. That's certainly been my experience.

Original poster
StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 21:07

Bit of both I think TunnocksCW.

I'm not scared of change (contrary to frequent accusations!Grin), and I want to try and get involved politically and fight for change. But for positive change, for progressive, meaningful change that will make lives better for the poorest, that will benefit our country. I just don't believe that independence is that change.

OP posts:
Tinkerball · 17/09/2014 21:08

I'm sick to the back teeth of the hysteria that is being whipped up regarding violence and aggression. This has rightly been condemned by The Scottish Police federation chairman, blaming the media. Anyone would think Scotland is on the verge of social meltdown.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/17/scottish-police-chairman-condemns-no-campaign-exaggerating-aggression

combust22 · 17/09/2014 21:08

Nicola Sturgeon now live on BBC news.

I will be going to bed tomorrow night. Glad OH is working as he would stay up all night anyway.

beatricequimby · 17/09/2014 21:09

Just looked at Wake Up Scotland and saw Denise Mina on there.Think her piece has just gone on. Definitely worth a read. Really wish this website had been around earlier as it very much reflects my views.

Just caught the end of Channel 4 news and they had Carol Craig on. Whatever happens in Scottish politics I would like to see more of her. If it's a yes I think she would be a wise voice on a Scottish negotiating team. Really hope it won't all be Snp types or men nobody has ever heard of.

AnnieHoo · 17/09/2014 21:10

latte I was feeling emotional driving home tonight too. I feel very sad thinking that my British identity could be stripped from me. I will be angry about that if it happens. I know I can't do anything about it but I will always be angry about it and very sad.

TunnocksCW · 17/09/2014 21:11

The reason I said that is my MIL, who I hugely respect actually Grin, voted no decisively some time ago on the ground she doesn't like change and thats it in a nutshell for her. I like to hope there is a bit more to it than that.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 17/09/2014 21:11

SC I agree with what you have said, it's not 'never', it's 'not like THIS'.

I would personally still be very, very sad if Scotland went independent. I like being in the 'UK' I like us being 'Great Britain' - I like the 4 of us, shoulder to shoulder being one. I'm a sentimental old trout and I want you to stay.

But if things were sorted out, if people knew where the stood re the currency, the EU, their jobs etc & if the vast majority of Scotland wanted this then I would be behind them. I would support it. A lot like when your eldest bogs off to Uni :)

OneNight · 17/09/2014 21:12

I'm not scared of changes although I'm a little apprehensive about the work ahead and the state the country will be in especially for the poorest and those people who are currently engaged with the process and are then probably going to be dumped by the wayside.

I don't know quite why people became excited so suddenly but perhaps it's because with the polls closing in they felt they were actually going to make a contribution to something? If so it would be a concern to me to keep that feeling focussed because there might be nothing worse for this country than if a whole bunch of people were sorely disappointed for whatever reason and whichever way the vote goes. I remain guardedly hopeful about the future although awestruck by the responsibilities our youngsters are going to have to shoulder.

SirChenjin · 17/09/2014 21:14

I wonder if it was something in the air this evening? I was having a little cry on the way home too - I'm off work tomorrow to look after DC3 as his school is closed for polling - and it suddenly dawned on me that my next commute might be as someone who has had their nationality stripped from them, not because I've chosen to relinquish it but because other people have decided to vote for a Nationalist vision. It's just an awful thought.

OneNight · 17/09/2014 21:16

Get a bottle of good stuff in SirChenjin it's the only way.

TunnocksCW · 17/09/2014 21:16

I have been around for a while and it all seems to be political apathy, for a long,long time. Those who are engaged seem to have been getting nowhere.

Now people are enthused will it stay that way and real changes be brought about as you hope Statistically?

WildThong · 17/09/2014 21:17

I don't understand why bookies are still showing such a definite win for No. What do they think they know that the polls don't.

Obviously you may have noticed I'm a no Smile, but I'm torn between thinking its an out and out Yes or a very tight Yes. I've always been pessimist though.

Just had a horrible phone call with a close family member, loves AS and NS, thinks a no vote will bring in Boris and UKIP who apparently hate Scotland and agrees that No voters are probably traitors. Even though she knows I'm one of them Sad