Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

A thought.

During the Dimbleby interview yesterday AS rubbished the suggestion that following Independence Scotland would be a foreign country to the Uk (and vise versa).

It has just occured to me - why doesn't he want that perception? What is he afraid of? Of course iScotland would be a Foreign country - that's the whole bloody point of independence!

I think he wants it both ways - Independence Lite, if you like.

Isn't that rather like an adult child declaring that they want to leave home and live in a rather choice house in a great location, but want Mummy and Daddy to continue to pay the rent/mortgage, buy their food etc etc??

Is that right, Chillijeannie? It's such a long time since I was involved in elections, but it doesn't make any sense to me that the ballot paper is placed in a separate sealed envelope if it is going to be looked at in advance of the count. And surely everything is set up so that it is impossible for anyone to know how the votes are going before, even accidentally.

If you are are right (and I'm happy to bow to superior knowledge), that means it is possible that someone has been counting votes in advance of the official count.

As I understand it, a spoiled vote in this country is counted.

Whaa??

I have never ever heard this before. As someone kindly detailed above, a spoiled or doubtful ballot goes into a pile to be looked at and agreed on by the officers. If it really is 'spoiled', ie scribbling something across the 2 boxes, or crossing both, then it is discounted

NC

I have thought for weeks that for a variety of reasons there would be a large increase in the spoiled vote count although I've been a lone voice on that one. I personally have no problems with your approach and I do think voters should at least go along and enter the booth.

As you said who knows but that divine inspiration might guide you at the last moment!

I think that's the reason for staying with the pound too. It's not so scary, so dramatic. but we will be a foreign country, like it or not.

I always thought that spoiled votes were simply formally noted freddie. (They always have the figures for them.) That may have been what was meant as opposed to infuence of which they have none.

thanks grand, I actually have just spotted it as I was searching for the 6.30pm episode of Reporting Scotland (bloody forgot to record it!) on iPlayer. Waiting on it getting uploaded, hope I didn't miss anything crucial.

Whatwouldfreddiedo - Spoilt votes are counted in the sense that there are x yes, y no and z spoilt ballots. Obviously the spoilt ballots are a complete waste of time. Might as well stay at home, folks .

The number of spoiled ballots is announced though and if significant can be taken as a measure of dissatisfaction with the options offered.

It's also a personal thing: if you always vote it doesn't sit right to stay away and just be taken as disengaged.

oh okay - I suppose that could then be a last resort.

If the Edinburgh postal vote results have been revealed before thursday by that counting officer, then are they still valid?

What is going to happen to all of the nuclear waste generated by Scotland in the shortterm?

At the moment, Scotland's nuclear waste is reprocessed in the UK at Sellafield. When Scotland becomes an independent country, it will have to deal with its own nuclear waste. I expect the UK could be persuaded to provide the service for a suitable commercial fee :(

Just one more thing to think about.

I heard about 2 Nos and 2 undecideds changing to Yes today. 3 family members and one friend. One No left in the near family.

I shall probably formally join my local green party next week and whoever is in power may not find me an easy bedfellow.

to that!

And I heard about 3 Yes's and 3 Undecideds changing to No today.

Im a YES. I am so excited!

The bookies still have No waaaay out in front. Intriguing.

Barda, I agree that a spoilt paper can be an indication of a rejection of all the options. I would anticipate there being a fair few of those in the upcoming general election. But in the case of a straight forward yes or no, what is to be achieved? As I said, might as well stay at home.

I'm a biased Brit (usually describe myself that way, but for clarification purposes should say English) , so would urge those who want to spoil their papers to vote NO .

Elevenerife much there sir?

Thanks to a very boring meeting this afternoon I was able to keep up with you all, though annoyingly (for me at least, not you I'm sure!) able to post. Just listened to some frankly dim people calling in on the radio - some of it's enough to make you weep - apparently the whole referendum is being driven by members of the EU who want to break the UK up.

I always thought that spoiled votes were simply formally noted freddie. (They always have the figures for them.) That may have been what was meant as opposed to infuence of which they have none.

That's what I meant -- thanks for clarifying! They count towards turn-out but obviously don't affect the overall result.

R.e. the postal ballots - as far as I know they shouldn't even be opened until 10pm tonight.

Oh no, Team - I don't do elevenerife.

I think Yes might be slightly ahead around my village. I thought until today that No would pip them to the post.

TeamScotland Ah ha, nothing to do with just wanting you to stop banging on about it I don't suppose. What they say and what they do aren't necessarily the same thing

Are the Yes voters really going to be happy to win with 50.1% or whatever if it goes that way? Will you really feel that Scotland is so much more democratic if half of the country don't want the government?

Personally, I hate the idea of it being a narrow No, but I will at least do my best to work with people on the issues that mattered, campaign for more powers etc to try and help pull us back together.

There's none of those options for us if it's a Yes. Get on the independence rollercoaster, or leave the country.