Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

999 replies

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 08:42

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

OP posts:
TeamScotland · 17/09/2014 17:35

The reaction is by no voters. Self praise is no praise.

talkin still voting yes, thanks for your concern though.

WildThong · 17/09/2014 17:36

Hit a wee nerve there did I? Don't recall saying I was concerned though.

OneNight · 17/09/2014 17:36

I have been told categorically squoosh that I should only be drinking water IrnBru and whisky. Mind you there's a bottle of whisky waving coquettishly at me from the table right now so roll on tomorrow night.

Spiritedwolf · 17/09/2014 17:36

Quite SirChenjin, it's quite hollow to hear that 'Scotland will always get the government it votes for.' when you realise that almost half the population won't be living in the country it voted for, under the governance it voted for.

It sounds as if Yes supporters attacking Gordon Brown's record don't have any response to what he said today. I'd be particularly interested if they choose to engage with the issues Statistically has repeatedly raised on here about these threads about the slashing of public spending or tax rises required to have any of the currency options.

If there is no money, then we can't do any of the fabulous things outlined in the White Paper. It just isn't credible.

grovel · 17/09/2014 17:39

I think Statistically wrote Gordo's speech for him.

TalkinPeace · 17/09/2014 17:39

Gordon Brown was a shit prime minister of the UK
he was a shit chancellor
BUT
he had the sense to keep his head down for 4 years and has come back to speak on an issue he cares about and knows about
GOOD FOR HIM

IrnBruTheNoo · 17/09/2014 17:40

Talkin I'm still voting Yes, but thanks for that pleading message.

squoosh · 17/09/2014 17:40

'The reaction is by no voters. Self praise is no praise.'

Okay Granny!

Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other
WildThong · 17/09/2014 17:42

You're on fire tonight squoosh

Artyjools · 17/09/2014 17:42

Hi ladies. I would like to thank you for your informative postings. I am English, living in England and have no vote, but I am hoping you stay in the fold. We are so much more than the sum of our parts, and it is a very tough world out there.

I wanted to say something about the administration of the vote, as it seems to be causing a bit of worry. If it is run in the same way as elections in England, and I would have thought that it would be, the voting stations will be run by local authority staff. The count is also largely run by local authority staff, although there may well be others, especially as such a large turnout is expected. I have been involved in many elections and have been in charge of voting stations as well as being involved in the count, so this is all from my experience, albeit from some years ago.

At the voting stations, there will be a person in charge who has to ensure that everything is dealt with properly. So, no-one will be able to ask you what you are voting or try to persuade you in any way how to vote. Everything is set up so that you can vote in private. Only one person is allowed in a voting booth at a time.

Only those who are employed to man the station and those voting or queuing up to vote can be in the station. As soon as you have voted, you have to leave. In local/general elections, I have sometimes seen candidates pop in to thank the staff for manning the stations, but they have to be in and out and not try to engage with people waiting to vote.

From what I recall, supporters of each side (tellers) may not stand immediately outside the door, but they can stand a little way off. They should not be trying to persuade you to vote one way or another. In fact, I'm fairly sure that they should not speak to you at all on your way into the station, but can ask you to identify yourself on the way out. The reason they do this is because they may have an idea who has said they will vote for them and, towards the end of the day, if they can see from their records that those people have not yet voted, they may go and try to round them up. I recall having to remind tellers not to try to speak to people on the way in on a couple of occasions, but it was never a real problem. they should all know the rules.

I fail to see how a count can be fixed. There are counters and then supervisors who watch the counters count. If a cross isn't exactly in a box or there is any other reason why the paper is unclear, these ballots are taken to a central table and the returning officer and a representative from each side will agree what is to be done with those papers - whether they are a yes, no or spoilt.

Postal votes are not opened before the count. They are opened at the same venue as the votes are counted and under the same scrutiny, so I cannot see that anyone has been able to count postal votes at this stage.

I hope this is reassuring to all sides. I also hope it all goes smoothly and we can all be friends afterwards.

OneNight · 17/09/2014 17:44

I'd disagree slightly Spirited because if there were to be a Yes vote tomorrow it would be significantly more than half from the conversations I've been having with people. Most of those people I have talked to who are voting Yes are doing so either because they have picked up an SNP statement wrongly or because they want to protest about a current ill in our society and the SNP would not be in a position to address either of those.

Thank God for a strong No vote.

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 17:46

I think Statistically wrote Gordo's speech for him.

Hahaha! I did listen going "Gordon, are you in my head or something?!" I have to admit.

OP posts:
IrnBruTheNoo · 17/09/2014 17:46

frankie can you please link to that article you saw on the BBC

from bbc news "Police Scotland is investigating a complaint that an electoral counting officer in Edinburgh has made public details of the postal ballots cast in the council area."

I have tried searching for it but cannot find it.

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/09/2014 17:48

You know that note Labour were supposed to have left the Tories saying "sorry, there's no money left"

I kind of imagine Alex Salmond writing a giant version of it, for the whole country. In about 18 months time.

OP posts:
MindReader · 17/09/2014 17:48

ArtyJools

that's useful info, thank you.

I understand my area is 'doing it differently' to usual elections in having a county wide centralised count in one place - ie 200 boxes will be transported to one town where a large number of officials will then process them. It sounds as though they are taking extra care not only to be rigorous but to be seen to be rigorous which is all good.

IrnBruTheNoo · 17/09/2014 17:49

BTW, I will just like to add after commenting on Gordon Brown that although I'm voting Yes tomorrow (unless I get hit by a car on the way to the polling station) I don't think Alex Salmond is a fantastic figure to lead Scotland in independence. I'd most likely vote Greens in.

OneNight · 17/09/2014 17:50

Thanks for that Artyjools although I have no in depth knowledge of the Scottish system.

My own fear is that in this matter and in the febrile place we're at perception is all so that in the event of a close vote just the perception of wrongdoing on the part of staff at booths and at the counts (or of others participating in the process in some way) might be enough to invalidate the legitimacy of any mandate. I would hope it didn't come to that.

Fontella · 17/09/2014 17:50

He's just doing this to advantage the Labour party in RUK which will be decimated if there's a yes vote. He's just in it for the Party, though technically a gatecrasher.

No. He gave a voice to the 1.8 to 2 million or so Scots (according to the polls) who don't want to see the Union broken up, and he roared! He spoke for your fellow Scots - the ones who are opposed to independence, and who have every much right to be heard as you do.

Best speech of the entire campaign from either side by a country mile, and I don't give a shit if he's a member of the Church of the Militant Elvis Party or the Teddy Bear Alliance - it was superb.

He's no gatecrasher either. He's as Scottish as you are and a seasoned politician who's seen it all, heard it all and done it all and he's got as much right to have his say as anyone else. He recognises a crock of shite when he sees it .. and Salmond's plans for Scotland are just that - a crock of shite.

SquirrelledAway · 17/09/2014 17:51

Postal votes won't have been counted as yet, only verified though?

flippinada · 17/09/2014 17:53

Just watched Gordon Brown's speech. No words but I may have got something in my eye...

member · 17/09/2014 17:56

I've posted on an earlier thread but as a Scot in England, I have felt I shouldn't offer too much in the way of opinion.

I have read the threads & would like to thank those who have copied links for further reading. Statistically your explanation of currency/need to build reserves up thread was fantastic; in fact your ability to communicate economic/monetary concepts in an understandable & non-superior fashion has been excellent.

Artyjools · 17/09/2014 17:56

Squirrel - yes they will be verified before the count. That's why you have to put your ballot paper in an envelope and then put that and your signed form in another envelope. If the verification is satisfactory, the envelope containing the ballot paper will be put somewhere safe and opened after polling is closed. No-one opens those envelopes prior to the count - unless they are behaving unlawfully.

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 17/09/2014 17:57

Agree that GB delivered a stormer of a speech and loving those tweets, Squoosh Grin

Good luck to all of you tomorrow, whatever your vote, hope it all goes off smoothly and peacefully.

Numanoid · 17/09/2014 17:58

Maybe it's because I have a different view (well, probably) and I understand that Gordon Brown's speech will have touched people, but it's really put me off him.

I agree with you IrnBru, I don't like Salmond much either. I don't care if it's him, Sturgeon, Cameron, Darling, or whoever telling me how they think I should vote. That goes for Yes and No campaigns alike though.

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 17/09/2014 17:59

And agree with member re great links and analysis from so many of you - real democracy in action Smile