Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

Does anyone know where the pool of people who man the voting booths and count the vote is usually drawn from, please?

It sounds rather like it.

Rose And this was all from the group of very intelligent Yes voters I was debating with. The language being used was extraordinary - evil, cruel, despots, disenfranchised. It felt like trying to argue with a group of cult followers. Not all Yes voters are like this (and some No are too) but I found it wearying and pointless but, somehow, couldn't stop.

Same here. I was reading about how the whole of the UK media is against Scottish independence and printing lies about it. Apparently the recent beheadings videos have been faked, for some reason connected to Scottish independence I can't quite grasp. If you try to reason with calm discussion to give your opinion, one of three things happens:

(1) They defriend you - a mercy.
(2) They launch into a tirade about Palestine, 40% of children living in poverty, or
(3) They share those photo meme things with little mottos - my favourite today was "Vote Yes or be a cunt"

"Split a people and create fear and extremism so you can control and manipulate that situation for your own profiteering or capitalist interests. The BBC should be held in contempt for the disgraceful role it's had in this independence debate and campaign." is typical if more literate than most.

Whats most horrifying is that these people are holding down managerial level jobs and earning quite high salaries, yet they are clearly prone to suffering paranoid delusions, have massive persecution complexes and don't develop particularly good skills of debate or reasoning. It also becomes evident that many of them have real literacy problems and difficulty in expressing themselves.

I was never a great Gordon Brown fan - although I always felt that he was essentially a good man (if a little temperamental at times!). He's been really dissed since losing office, and if 'no' win (as I hope), I think many will feel that it was partially due to his intervention. I hope that history gives him credit for that.

Back to topic..........

Day to day living would probably be affected in a few different ways.

Shopping is likely to get more expensive, for example. John Lewis and 4 of the big supermarkets basically said this. We'd lose the economies of scale involved in supplying the rUK.

Have you seen the list of 200 institutions? I'm trapped with my phone under a sleeping toddler so I can't link, but it's a BBC list of 200 bodies Scotkand would have to set up to run on a day to day basis. It's really interesting.

Had a great moment with a yes campaigner today. They mistook my 'No thanks' badge for a yes and offered me a handshake, when I said I'm voting no he offered me a handshake for political involvement anyway

I think that the voting booth personnel are usually local authority staff and the counters are from local banks. I could be wrong though.

Wow fontella you have a crystal ball! at 2.45 today you said,
Personally Squoosh I think it's good that they didn't.

He'd have been discredited, torn apart, character assasinated in the run up - shit Prime Minister etc. etc (which let's face it is what a lot of us thought) part of the British establishment, what does he know etc etc*

Seem you were correct

santana that's the way it should always be!

Just watched the Gordon Brown speech. That was fantastic. Would love to see him leading Scottish Labour in the Scottish Parliament.

He's just doing this to advantage the Labour party in RUK which will be decimated if there's a yes vote. He's just in it for the Party, though technically a gatecrasher.

Gatecrashed in the marvellous fashion I'd say.

Well done that man.
Fingers crossed helps the 'No' vote.....

Well, if you're all trying to discredit Gordon Brown for taking part in the debate, four words, 'convicted perjurer Tommy Sheridan'

I know who I would believe out of those two!

Well Daughter some us believe the Labour Party is a worthwhile cause. I care about social justice in the rest of the UK, not just for Scots.

And he and his family live in Scotland, his kids go to school here. In what way is he a gatecrasher? I would say Jim McColl is a gatecrasher unless Monaco has somehow become part of Scotland.

Someone at work made the point earlier that this referendum has divided Scotland in a way no Westminster Government ever has. I'm afraid I agree with them.

I've become so twitter addicted during the last few months! There's a twitter account Called Angry Salmond that makes me giggle.

In an independent Scotland, agony aunts won't exist because nobody in an independent Scotland will be in agony.

In an independent Scotland, the Daily Mail will be replaced by The Dandy.

An independent Scotland will be a nonstop high-octane thrill ride with incredible adventures and awesome sex.

In an independent Scotland, midges will leave the country because I’m pretty sure they’re all unionists.

In an independent Scotland, the Mr. Men will all be "Dr. Men" because everyone will go to university.

I care about social justice for the whole UK too.
And I agree that this Referendum has divided Scotland more than WM has managed to.

I found out today that my areas votes are being dealt with solely by the LA. From someone in the Dept I am about to make a formal complaint about. I think I'll keep schtum until Monday...

Never thought old Gordon had it in him, great speech.

A vote for independence is a vote to begin treating the rest of the UK as a competitor instead of a team member. I think we're best to build on the UK institutions, regulatory bodies, advisory bodies, charities, membership of EU, research bodies, academic institutions, defence force, shared infrastructure instead of having to set up new Scottish ones at a great deal of expense, time and effort. As part of UK we have a bigger market for our exports - 60% of which go to the rest of UK. If we were to separate, there would be less reason for rUK to buy from Scotland. They would be competing for trade against us.

Nobody on the no side is claiming that UK is perfect. The accusation of jobs for the old boys network seems hard to refute. But there's no reason to think that a Scottish government would be any better. It's very easy to blame our problems on 'them' (ie Westminster). I believe that in the event of Scotland becoming independent it would only be a matter of time before we were blaming the Scottish politicians. Swapping one set of politicians for another is unlikely to achieve much in my opinion.

I think there's a horrible undercurrent of bitter greediness in the yes campaign's attempts to keep most of the oil revenues to 'ourselves'. Times are changing - the challenges of feeding the people's of the world and protecting ourselves from climate change, terrorism and the increasingly global nature of big businesses are surely better faced as part of UK than as a tiny new nation.

squoosh now, that's funny
re midgies being Unionists and Mr Men being Dr Men

I don't understand twitter but that would make it worthwhile.

Can we have a fred for 'funnies'???? would be nice

If Gordon Brown was to lead an inde Scotland then I think I might just manage to cope with the idea - the thought of having to see those smug bastards Salmond and Sturgeon lording it over us for the next 2 years makes me feel quite murderous. GB speech was amazing - reminded us all what's at stake here.

I bet the newspaper people who keep famous people's obituaries up to date in case of a sudden demise are adding in mention of The Speech right now.

Dear people living in Scotland,

especially those who are able to vote by a fluke of temporary location

Every single person of Scottish origin that I have spoken to in the last month here in southern England is almost sick with worry that you are going to vote to leave the UK.
King Alec will get his fiefdom.
The Spanish will do everything in their power to block EU membership for obvious reasons
The markets will have a flat spin panic.
We will all suffer.
And for what?
So that King Alec can keep kicking the debt can down the road using free tuition ans subsidised everything in the hopes that the oil price stays high and the stuff does not run out?
One day it will. He will probably be dead by then so does not care
And the 16 and 17 year olds will be grown up and facing financial catastrophe.

PLEASE VOTE NO
PLEASE

I bet the newspaper people who keep famous people's obituaries up to date in case of a sudden demise are adding in mention of The Speech right now

Not if they're a Yes voter!

Old Gordon nailed it for No today, you can tell by the reaction.