Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

PS I don't care about individual politicians and their personalities. I don't need to be a fan they are all one to me. What I could do with are some facts, but there seem to be none.

Thank you people. I will have a look at the thing mumbox posted as well

See my post above ... something not quite right with that site. Told me I should vote 'yes'

I'm 100% against the break up of the union and answered accordingly ....

Statistically thank you. I never thought no voters weren't passionate! However, you are a bit of an expert to even begin to understand the arguments, I am not and do not. Even my mother has read the White Paper and got a view, I seem to be unable to do the same.

Gordon has been involved within the Labour party (I suppose stirring up activists to go out and campaign) for quite a while now. He is fantastic. He was always good at this kind of thing (here's his speech to a community organising charity back during the 2010 election campaign ). It's just the sort of thing that is easily overlooked in the media.

Ed Miliband is great at large Q&A sessions. But usually they don't appear on TV. He'll probably do another during Labour conference, and the conferences are usually covered by BBC Parliament or News. When you hear these people speak away from PMQs and stiff TV Leader's debates they are very good. Even a very casual setting like Desert Island Discs is quite interesting Ed was on it a good while after he won the leadership debate and spoke very frankly about the relationship between him and his brother, you can still listen to it on itunes. But I am a bit of a political geek.

That website Mumbox posted is not even remotely unbiased in its presentation. Same outcome as Fontella here.

What is important for you Tunnocks? Maybe if we look at it from that perspective we can provide some information to help you?

fannyfifer thanks to you I've volunteered to stand at the polling station from 8.30. I offered lift but they have that covered in my area.

Just clicked no to everything and the little man went all the way to the union jack and suggested a no? Not sure whats happening there Fontella?

If I tick no to everything on that tickbox site I get a no, yes and I get a yes...

My 16 year old son heard about it from school. Said it was really good at comparing the two sides of the Scottish Referendum and really easy to understand! Adding a new perspective to the debate

No new perspective there I'm afraid.

I tried different combinations of answers and every single one vame back as vote yes... Errr no thanks

You need to lok at it critically Fontella because with a very few exceptions which are presumably included for verisimilitude it's basically saying 'Tick the # box if you don't like motherhood and apple pie.' (A sort of 'Say Yes if you don't think people should kick puppies.')

I actually think it's pretty questionable tactics to send this sort of thing out to youngsters. The activists' argument would probably be that 'If you're old enoough to vote, you're old enough to make up your own mind' but that's disingenuous. Many mature adults can't work out what to think when faced with manipulative professionals or semi-professionals so how much less would a youngster on their first vote know what the heck was going on? The thing probably looks like the sort of multiple choice they do daily anyway.

I think it's sleazy tactics and shows much about the lengths the activists are prepared to go to. I wonder how the youngsters will feel about such an attempt to manipulate them?

The way the questions are phrased is very poor. Many of them you would not tick no to even if you were against independence suck as questions about free education. It's really very poor, and I am not particularly impressed that it's being circulated amongst young people

Tunnocks

Hello! Do go to the polling station tomorrow - if you are genuinely undecided you can spoil your ballot paper.

This might help with a decision one way or the other though? I put together some links that I thought might be useful, and hopefully as balanced as possible.

womenforindependencenefife.weebly.com/blog/many-questions-a-few-answers

I think though SC that they're phrased for youth impact in a sort of 'By the time they've got to the end of that and read all the boxes, the 'good' things will have sunk into their brains and be allied with the 'You should vote Yes' they'll have been given' sort of way.

I'm also not impressed. It's pure propaganda but dressed up in such a way that a youngster on their first vote would not always be able to notice that.

Please don't spoil your paper anyone. You're right to vote is a real privilege.

Listen to the experts. Watch the debates. Be aware that some websites are heavily biased.

I think there are lots and lots of impartial places to get advice - the link posted by NCforAye is not one of them.

OK I think there are a lot of side issues which are important but to me seem domestic, whereas this vote, to me, is about national/ international issues. So, Europe, currency, defence etc. I am ashamed to say I have never given any of this side of things much thought in my life but it is complex which is probably why I put it off. Also probably because that sort of stuff seemed so distant and unrelated to my previous votes.

You would never not move house because you don't know what day they collect the bins at the new place.

True, but you probably wouldn't move if you didn't know whether you had enough money to pay the rent or mortgage.

And I am going to vote. I believe in voting even if I have felt ambivalent about the result.

I can understand that TunnocksCW. Many people don't think about what currency means for them for example. To an extent, why would you? It's not really about what the note is or whether it's pounds, poonds or smackeroonis - it's about the impact that those currency decisions will then have on domestic issues. The NHS, benefits, education...

Freddie thank you for the Gill Scott article.

For any undecided lefties out there, Gill Scott was the Director of the Scottish Poverty Information Unit. I think her article and the Carol Craig one from Scottish Review are worth reading. Both thoughtful, committed women with an excellent track record in campaigning for social justice in Scotland.

Just clicked no to everything and the little man went all the way to the union jack and suggested a no? Not sure whats happening there Fontella?

I didn't click 'No' to everything though. There were two things I agreed with the 'Yes' side on so I clicked those - and that, apparently was enough to make me a 'yes' voter.

Iff you click straight nos all the way down - it can hardly come back as anything other than a Union Jack can it - as it would be so obviously biased that it would end up on the front page of the Daily Mail.

But as soon you make any positive response - it turns you into a 'yes' voter, which I wouldn't be (if I could vote) in a million years.

grin at "relieved Alistair Darling sat on the front row and his expression is saying 'Thank f*ck, the cavalry's arrived!"

grin

OFGS!