Indyref 13 - the one where people are nice to each other

[StatisticallyChallenged]

This is continuation of the previous threads. I'm hoping this can be a thread for civilised debate and discussion from people on both sides of the voting line, and where undecided voters can come and chat and get opinions.

Some of the previous threads have gone downhill. So for the sake of a good discussion can everyone please try to avoid nasty comments about the other side? References to Nazis, people being selfish, stupid, thick etc don't help anyone. This vote will be over and the votes counted in about 48 hours. After that we have to pull together whatever the outcome.

Sorry, this

"the most rational action in most situations is to proceed according to maximising your future influence on the inevitable change that is always coming."

is not supposed to be necessarily an argument for "yes". It is an argument against "we don't know what's coming, so we don't want to change anything". Actively deciding that "no" is better could well be done on the basis of maximising your influence, too. But "we don't know so we will change as little as possible" just means other people will grab the opportunity to be the influencers

Gordon Brown on BBC News Channel now

Undecideds/Weak Yeses - worth checking the attached blog before tomorrow: wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/ewan-morrison-yes-why-i-joined-yes-and-why-i-changed-to-no/

I agree re the campaigns. It's just a shame the Yes campaign didn't channel more of that energy into proper solutions for how an indy Scotland would work effectively.

Ewan Morrison once asked me to go swinging with him. True Story.

Aside from that, his article is very interesting and I'm sure has ruffled a few Yes feathers.

Good article Raintown.
Thanks for sharing.

I'm disappointed with them Statistically I thought they were serious about it at first, but they seem to care more for getting that initial 'yes' vote than in making sure that the independent Scotland they set up is successful.

Mindreader, they sound awful, my son's school were pretty useless at helping him but t least they were well meaning. " Toe by Toe" worked through at home by me was what ultimately helped and once he could begin to make sense of phonics his stamina for reading and writing both improved.He is now doing well at high school but age 9/10 was the bottom of the graph for him. I'm sure things will improve for your DS too.

By the way, my heart says yes but has been reluctantly overruled by my
head saying no. We are in our late forties, self employed and had to stop paying into our pensions due to the economic downturn. Our business is highly dependent on cooperation with firms in other EU countries ( often involving some element of EU grant funding) and business has been picking up. We need to save like mad for the next ten years for our old age as well as having teens that may want to go to Uni etc. we don't feel we have time to wait out any economic problems a newly independent Scotland may have.

(Gordon Brown is brilliant... you can't argue that there hasn't been a passionate 'heart' case made for the UK)

I visited relatives and friends in Devon (in laws) and in London (my sister is working there) last month and loved it. The UK is my country, London is my capital just as much as Edinburgh. I don't want to give that up. I love being part of a larger, multicultural society.

My heart and my head are very much in agreement.

Squoosh, I met Ewan Morrison when he lived in New York, my sister was friendly with his ex wife, your experience does not surprise me! I liked his article too because it articulated most of my concerns.

Ewan was on Radio Scotland this morning. I liked his blog. I was disappointed that he didn't try to counter the Yes campaigner (on the radio) who was very savvy in mentioning the organisations with a bad name that have come out for No. She also advertised the website that tracks attacks on yes campaigners. There is so much he could have said back to counter her arguments and he didn't.

Also on that same blog Wake Up, Scotland are thoughtful articles by Jackie Kemp, Gill Scott and others who have moved from Yes to No.

(btw Jackie Kemp is the daughter of a previous editor of the Daily Record)

I understand that Wiggly for me I can't support 10yrs+ of economic turmoil. Maybe fervent yes supporters are prepared to wait it out in the hope of something better, but I have a toddler.... these are the 10yrs+ of my life that I am raising a young family. These years matter to me and they matter to others who also don't have the resources to wait out the bad times or move.

Just signing in. Everyone is talking about it in London. Trains and planes are packed with people returning to vote. My boss had to pay a fortune to change his ticket so he could get back in time.

Everyone I have spoken to is a passionate no and some even been involved committees outside of the BT campaign to demonstrate the value of staying together. There is plenty of heart and fire in our campaign.

I keep seeing union jacks all around and want to cry.

sorry, nto the Record! the Glasgow Herald

Yes wiggly, I have a feeling I wasn't the first! He was pretty easy to turn down I have to say. I think he wrote a book about his swinging exploits, so glad I'm not an anecdote in that.

I saw a comment online that I thought was interesting

The guy basically said there's a lot of yes people about waving saltires, driving around tooting horns etc, but you see much less of this from the no side.

He asked how are they getting time off work to do this? Does it mean the yes supporters don't work?

Is that the real reason for the "silent no's"?

This is his comment not mine.

oh frankie please let's not go down that route again - maybe they've all taken time off in the run up to the vote?

Well I can't work ATM and I'm a no

Yes, please can we not go there re the demographics of the voters on either side? It just winds up offending people and derailing the discussion.

I'm just mentioning it as what people are thinking and saying online.

Well I know plenty of yes voters who are working so you can't generalise, but the ones who aren't have more time to devote to the campaign and are certainly very visible.