Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Indyref 12 - keeping the ball rolling

999 replies

flippinada · 15/09/2014 20:38

Hope everyone doesn't mind, I'm to keep the discussion going. As you were folks :)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
LatteLoverLovesLattes · 15/09/2014 21:33

WOW

How can we get that out to the yes & undecided voters??

OneNight · 15/09/2014 21:33

Do you have any figures on that SC? I would guess that the figure quoted by TheBogQueen (if she's been advised of it) is on the 'total possible' side and doesn't take account of the numerous difficulties in exploration and extraction etc let alone the gross worth v. revenues issue.

flippinada · 15/09/2014 21:33

Oh bloody hell, now I'm repeating myself! Ah well it made me laugh.

OP posts:
Numanoid · 15/09/2014 21:34

It is a shame that some people behave like that OneNight, it's sad that it's come to this. I guess it's up to the rest of us to remain civil, and hopefully that type of behaviour will die down.

Death threats are beyond nasty Statistically, did you or your mum report it to the Police? A Yes voting friend of mine has had a death threat too, over their views, and reported it to the police. Whether it's a joke to the person making the threat or not, it's a serious thing. Causing the worry of whether it's a true threat or not to the victim is serious enough to be charged. It really annoys me that people would threaten anyone's life over a referendum. Angry

hambo · 15/09/2014 21:35

Numanoid - horrible, and glad your DH was there x

PhaedraIsMyName · 15/09/2014 21:35

As a result, we may have to borrow from the IMF,

That's basically the state version of borrowing from Wonga.

Cambiodenombre · 15/09/2014 21:35

I found this link which might help explain

blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-scotlands-oil-wealth/17811

Numanoid · 15/09/2014 21:36

I've heard of flags being torn down and signs being vandalised/completely destroyed flippinada. It's a shame people can't be more like the neighbours whose photo has went viral. The one with the Yes poster in one window and the Better Together one in the other, and in the middle they have a sign saying something like 'I love my neighbour'. I think someone posted it in one of the threads here.

hambo · 15/09/2014 21:36

I hear you all, and I am worried...not really for me, as I should be financially ok. (I think). With a 'Yes' vote winning, even if we do eventually come right, we will still be in recession as the markets will collapse and it takes a looong time to get back on an even keel. So, say in 10/15 years we are all super pleased with Scotland..woo hoo. However, in the mean time, to save me money, I had to cut back. First it might be my cleaner (and my friend has sacked her cleaner and my other friend has sacked her cleaner, as money is tight). My cleaner will then be looking for other work. Currently she earns £15 per hour and is fully booked all week. Then it might be making my own lunch instead of buying from the local sandwich person....or stopping getting my hair coloured....or stopping paying for sports lessons for the kids.....All these things impact people who need other people to spend their 'extra' money on them...that is who I worry about....because in 5, 10, or 15 years it is too late for them. Their business is gone.

SantanaLopez · 15/09/2014 21:37

That's basically the state version of borrowing from Wonga.

Cambiodenombre · 15/09/2014 21:37

That's shit numanoid. Abhorrent behaviour

SantanaLopez · 15/09/2014 21:38

Exactly hambo!

temporaryusername · 15/09/2014 21:38

I have heard, admittedly don't know the specifics, that where power has already been devolved to the Scottish parliament, they have not protected the NHS budget in Scotland as much as Westminster has in England. So if they have already chosen less money for healthcare than Westminster, I wouldn't have much faith in them on that front.

I also think austerity can be complicated by the ideology of the ruling party but is not simply ideologically driven. I am afraid if you want to find the cause of austerity you'd have to look at the years leading up to the financial meltdown and the Labour government had much do with it. I don't think the Tories would have been any better.

As for London, I don't see the investments benefitting ordinary people. In fact ordinary people are becoming poorer and poorer as a result of the house price boom and cost of living.

I wonder if the referendum has become a cause upon which to hang dissatisfaction with many of the problems of life today, when in fact they are not directly connected to independence and a yes vote would not solve any of them. Given the chance to shout out how upset we are with the way things are, I'd think all of us would do it! I know I would in England. A yes vote doesn't just do that though, and it won't help the way things are I don't think.

The United Kingdom is not England with other countries tagged on, to me, it is equally all the members. Yet I've never, ever thought that being British was a conflict with being English. Quite the opposite, out of loyalty to my country I want it to be strong, and so would want it to stay in a union that makes it stronger. I totally understand the perspective may be very different for others, but for me there is no conflict there. This idea that people have been feeling that being a proud Scot means you must be anti Uk is totally paradoxical and shocking to me.

OneNight · 15/09/2014 21:39

Ouch Cambio. (But thanks.)

WildThong · 15/09/2014 21:39

'Let's stay together' Thousands of people gathered in London earlier to urge Scottish voters to reject independence and remain in the United Kingdom.
Those at the rally in Trafalgar Square waved Union Jack flags and held up signs reading "Let's stay together" and "Scotland we love you, don't go."
Organiser Dan Snow, a broadcaster and historian, told the crowd: "We think that unity is better than division, and cooperation is better than competition."

Indyref 12 - keeping the ball rolling
Cambiodenombre · 15/09/2014 21:39

You pay your cleaner £15 an hour? (Completely misses point....)

hambo · 15/09/2014 21:41

Cambio - yes! Two ladies come at the same time...but they are AMAZING and have revolutionised my life.

Numanoid · 15/09/2014 21:41

Angry sticker guy was the only aggressive one I've come across, the rest is more like playground name-calling and pettiness. When leafleting, most people who didn't want a leaflet politely said "no, thank you" or similar. I sometimes wonder if people carrying out vandalism and general hooliganism and such don't actually have an opinion on the referendum, but are just out to cause trouble.

Fontella · 15/09/2014 21:43

I know you probably already know all this (I'm late to the discussion, so please forgive me) but as I'm going around the internet I'm finding all sorts of stuff I previously wasn't aware of.

I don't use Facebook .. but I came across this page called Alex Salmond is a Deluded Wanker'

I thought it was just some kids site .. but looking on it there's a photo of a group of people holding placards spelling out 'SNP NHS LIES' - it looks like a real photo, not doctored or photoshopped like a lot of them are on there. Is this a genuine event/protest does anyone know?

If you haven't seen this site - don't be put off by first impressions - there are links to all sorts of interesting videos and articles, plus some of the comments are extremely articulate and erudite.

www.facebook.com/pages/Alex-Salmond-is-a-deluded-wanker-/133345880093748

SantanaLopez · 15/09/2014 21:43

I sometimes wonder if people carrying out vandalism and general hooliganism and such don't actually have an opinion on the referendum, but are just out to cause trouble.

I agree with that. No Old Firm this matches to use as an excuse this year either.

flippinada · 15/09/2014 21:44

Nuamoid Agreed. And I know I keep boring on about it, but that's why I appreciate this thread. Being able to have a proper, civilised discussion.

OP posts:
Cambiodenombre · 15/09/2014 21:44

It why you can't draw comparisons with the Norwegian style of oil wealth management. They had the foresight years ago to set up a fund which had direct interests in its oil fields and are now reaping the rewards. Unless Scotland tries to nationalise the oil fields (good luck with that) all it can do is hope to start now and set up a similar entity to manage state interests but then it would have to pay its share of costs. Development costs for the material fields in the UK run into billions of pounds plus the ongoing spend. Where would that money come from? And as many state oil prices are cyclical. It's wonderful in the world of $100+ oil but if it falls what happens? Revenues fall and jobs get culled in Aberdeen which means less income tax revenue.

StatisticallyChallenged · 15/09/2014 21:45

The oil figures are very contentious!

This is what the SNP say in their White Paper:

" Production is expected to extend beyond the middle of the century, with the industry estimating remaining reserves of up to 24 billion barrels of oil and gas that can still be recovered. In terms of wholesale value, North Sea reserves could be worth £1.5 trillion – a greater value than the amount extracted to date. As the vast bulk of the reserves are beneath Scottish waters, that gives us one of the best financial safety nets of any country in the world".

However, Sir Ian Wood (really respected guy in the oil industry who is getting his reputation hammered by Yessers) said that both sides had grossly misrepresented his report. full interview here but he basically says that the SG estimate is 45-65% too high.

WildThong · 15/09/2014 21:45

Oi, not all Old Firm fans are hooligans!

PhaedraIsMyName · 15/09/2014 21:45

Just read your post Numanoid , very sorry to hear that.