Indyref 12 - keeping the ball rolling

[flippinada]

Hope everyone doesn't mind, I'm to keep the discussion going. As you were folks :)

What script? I don't think I was categorising any party in my post and I'm sorry you were treated in such a way because that's inexcusable.

My concern is for the actual and perceived integrity of the voting process. I'm already worried as you probably know about the divisions that this process is setting up in Scottish society and I am concerned particularly about the process because if it was perceived as fair it might just stand a chance of acceptance among those whose party does not get the vote it wishes on Friday. Aggression and intimidation are going to make it extremely difficult to accept for those who might be feeling temporarily disenfranchised particularly if there are differences between areas of the country.

Not really. The script is that if anything bad has happened, it (and the number of perpetrators) is so statistically insignificant that no one need pay any mind.

I'm beginning to think moving abroad would be a good option, no matter what way the vote goes. I'm beginning to get to the state of thinking "what next" in Scotland. There always seems to be some constitutional crisis, or Terrible Thing affecting an entire industry that means you have grown men living in rather nice houses wringing their hands in anguish. I'm fed up with it. I was sickened by the nonsense at the INEOS crisis, and have been sickened again, by amongst other bad behaviour, the mob that surrounded the BBC in Glasgow because someone dared to ask AS a question he they didn't like.

But most of all I'm sick of the increasing control over my life and the promise of higher taxes for more of the same. DH was informed today that the foreign job will be giving him a second interview, and it is in a country that I've lived and worked in before and still have contacts in.

Its so easy to have inertia and stay in the same place, but I'm beginning to think it might be a wise idea to get out. But I have property in Scotland, so I'll still be rooting for No, as I don't want it to shoot down in value.

The problem is that they are paying mind Toadinthehole. I've already had doubts about the integrity of the process expressed informally to me by people of different persuasions (and for different reasons) and I find it difficult to defend it robustly when I'm challenged to trust it myself.

I should say I don't know much about that group nor if they are responsible for any/all of the mob tactics, but wondered how widespread their activities were given their interesting views.

I'm really sorry that you've experienced people being rude and uncivil to you montysma1 as well as the more serious incidents. Nobody should be doing that.

I think it's unfair to accuse people as clutching petticoats though there is a huge 'script' about dismissing the concerns of no voters as 'scaremongering' and it sounds pretty patronising too.

A question. If a person walked around, say Glasgow city centre wearing an England football or rugby top, would that person get any reaction?

Or is it something you just don't see?

My point is that I am more than a little tired of the sign stealing stories, (this thread and others) and the general portrayal in the media of the Yes campaign as a baying mob. It simply is not the case. I do not for one moment make the assumption that the people involed in ny exppriences are agressive/bigoted/criminal because they are NO voters. Its because they are agressive/bigoted/criminal regardless of their political opinion and they are in the arsehole minority.There is however a wholesale portrayal in the media of the YES campaign as all of the above (with the insertion of racist in place of bigoted) and yes there is a script. I could write it for them. There is more than a hint of it on mumsnet. So as I said balance. A wonderful thing.

You've been treated disgracefully.

But I don't agree that people commit criminal acts regardless of their views. Quite often, they are because of those views or at least the strength with which they hold them.

montysma1 these threads have historically been a lot more balanced. For whatever reason the Yes voters stopped engaging today - there have been a few catty comments about why on other threads but I am not going to get in to an argument about it. Because of that, today there have been more posts about fears and concerns because rather than debating and discussing issues it's ended up with the Nos just chatting to each other and sharing stories etc. We can't debate with ourselves.

You've been treated disgracefully. Personally, whilst I've seen a bit of ugliness (in real life) from No voters which I have called out I have seen and experienced far more from the Yes side. But I'm a no voter, so that's hardly surprising. I don't for a moment say all Yes voters are mobs etc and I have done my best to stop people saying stuff like that on these threads.

There is no script. It doesn't help your argument to claim that a bunch of individuals on the internet who aren't linked have one either.

So if a "yes" vote goes through we are clearly looking at 3/4 for years to implement before iScotland evolves.

In that time, a lot of damage will already have been done. We will probably be feeling the effects of sterlingisation. You could easily foresee the situation when, to great fanfare and trumpets, we cut the ribbon for launch of iScotland - and no one bloody wants it any more!

But under the Edinburgh Agreenent there would be no going back.

It would be very odd indeed.

There does seem to be much civil unrest right now. However, I haven't seen it reported in the media. Have I just missed it?

These threads have been great. All posters welcomed, any points raised, any number of times, and diversions brief then staying on course. All quite rare.

If someone stood posting, I'd assume it's simply because they've got nothing more they want to say here. Not because there is some third party responsible for something.

good morning all.

did not get much sleep last night. I suspect tomorrow night will be worse :(

Dh showed me a video created by the yes campaign - back to the future.

Doc Brown tells Marty he needs to go to the future (scenes from the movie), then it shows mock bbc news clips and newspaper headlines - Scotland rejects independence, coalition government formed with the UKIP, Cameron shakes hands with Farage, UK leaves the EU...

With Marty McFly uttering his line "please god, no!" and Doc going "I'm afraid it's true"

And they say the 'no' campaign are scaremongering!!!!

That sounds grim frankie80. The extremely hypocritical use of scare mongering really annoys me. Yes do plenty of it themselves.

Friends in London all think its a no. But that everyone is talking about it and wonders why people would go. Extraordinary times. I'm so tired of it all, I just want to wake up on Friday and have the result.

one I wonder if there will be intimidation around the polling stations? Like clumps of people hassling voters when they go in? I remember it at the last election and I found it quite intimidating. It's illegal in the Netherlands.

didn't you get any sleep either SC? :(

Statistically -do you ever sleep?

I can see the future too - on Thursday night you will pass out with relief that the voting is done, and sleep through till next Tuesday :)

livingzuid

yes I think there will be intimidation - not necessarily threats, but definitely people wearing badges/holding signs/asking how you voted.

There was an article, I think it was in the Daily Fail , about how yes campaigners were putting a 'yes' wreath outside a polling station in memory of a 'yes' voter who died before he could vote.

Obviously sad he's dead, but that's guilt/sympathy being used to influence the vote.

me again, sorry

at the last scottish election, the headteacher of the school where I voted was walking around with SNP badges on, her husband was an SNP councillor and similarly was walking around the school with SNP badges.

Is this allowed? is there not some kind of rule about how near to a polling station you can have political signs etc?

I would also say the reason why i am talking about the vandalism of signs is because all I've seen is that, along with plenty of harassment from yes campaigners whilst out and about. It is also true people have experienced this as Yes supporters. None of it is right.

We can only talk about what has happened to us and I don't think there has been any overegging by either side of the problem. It just demonstrated what is to come in the future regardless of which way the vote goes.

I too feel a lot of civic unrest. I'm not convinced I will stay in the long run either.

Not really Frankie80 . Haven't slept much in the last week at all - lots going on too.

Nah Luckytwo, I'll probably be sitting armed with a spreadsheet on Thursday night. Sleep seems unlikely!

I am sure schools are supposed to be impartial and would have received something to that effect. They are government funded at the end of the day. If I saw that I would be making a complaint to the LEA.

A wreath how low can you get by exploiting someone's death?

Also after Friday I will get more work done!

I'm beginning to think moving abroad would be a good option, no matter what way the vote goes. I'm beginning to get to the state of thinking "what next" in Scotland.

Us too and an awful lot of our friends. DH has a job offer on the table and I have my CV out too.

There's always been people outside the polls with badges and signs and asking how you voted.