Indyref 12 - keeping the ball rolling

[flippinada]

Hope everyone doesn't mind, I'm to keep the discussion going. As you were folks :)

When Clegg was elected LibDem leader I was gutted because it was clear he would always go with the Tories in the event of a coalition. Yet as became clear, Huhne was a fairly crappy option, too!

Fuck he's an irritating wanker. This is torture.

I'd have Cameron over Clegg any day of the week

Actually, so would I. I think you at least know what you're getting with Cameron.

I suspect we would LuckyTwo

I'm thinking of staying up all night on Thursday. (Friday in work will be productive ).

Is anyone else? I'd like some company!

Frankie that image of the family leaving Downing Street still sticks with me. Gordon Brown did so much for the poor, so much more than the SNP would do. Again, not saying he was perfect, but he did significantly reduce poverty.

fontella didn't Edward Kennedy have the same thing? That he got more done because he wasn't president? Whether the Kennedys should have been allowed to become such a powerful ruling family is another debate! But I do agree with you. You achieve more behind the scenes.

I'm coming round to Gordon and I thought he spoke brilliantly and from the heart last weekend.

Agree re Nick Clegg. DH was full of admiration over his fluent Dutch then watched a bit more and felt quite deflated. All looks and no substance. Very disappointing.

I have a postal vote, so voted about 2 weeks ago so missed the new devo-max option added to the No vote (despite Cameron saying it WASN'T an option 2 years ago). So I'm unbelievably pissed off, how dare these people just change the rules at the last minute.
The vote for you lucky people is now
Yes: Independence
No: Devo Max
I didn't have that option.
I already feel sold out - damned if you vote yes, double-damned if you vote no.
God help those Westminster cunts if they renege on the bullshit they're promising.
Nobody is going to riot if the Nos win on Thursday, they will if we find out that they are lying to us now.

I think GB is probably a pretty decent guy who indeed got shafted by Blair. He strikes me as quite a moral man as politicians go.

I honestly think Cameron is sincere. Inept, but sincere. I won't forget how sorrowed he and Samantha looked over the death of their little boy. It made him more human. Not enough to lead a country but I certainly don't rank him up there with my despised politicians list of Blair and Salmond. Who are at the top in a tie.

I'll be up BakerStreet - I think I'm running on about 2 hours a night just now!

I think (I may be wrong) but I think GB does actually care about Scottish independence/devolution. He seems to get eat people are bothered about.

Unlike Cameron, Clegg and Milliband who are clearly way out of their depth.

*what people are bothered about.

Great Stat

I must say, I'm very impressed by your stamina and devotion to the cause!

I do not agree that Cameron is sincere. That is a bridge way too far.

Well you know, someone has to man the BT anonymous desk when the rest of you slackers are sleeping

Starting to burble now. Best try and get some sleep. Night all.

team agree he was shafted by those two. Cherie Blair urgh. Can't stand her.

I'll probably be up too :)

Definitely put Blair much higher up the hate list. Brown was not a bad man, and I think he's very intelligent. He wasn't a showy PM like Blair really and not obsessed with power and money in the same way. He suits the role he's taken here, the sort of "elder statesman" as someone put it. He's good at calm, clear explanations - although his passion does shine through.

I hate this demonising of politicians. All the abusive comments, etc..

I do wonder sometimes if good politicians are better off staying out of the top jobs/limelight altogether. He definitely does seem to have taken on a statesmanlike role in all this, a voice of reason almost .. and from what little I've seen (we aren't getting anything like the amount of coverage you are) it suits him.

I agree. I also think we're comparing basic competence with comparative mediocrity, but that Alistair Darling, Cameron and GB are coming out well. I agree with livingzuid that Clegg speaks vacuously in both languages. With his slightly more varied background, you would hope he would have done better. Perhaps he would do better in Europe ie in the EU.

I can't be impartial. As the debate has gone on, I've developed a virtual allergy to AS and NS. I really don't like AS in particular. NS is just his Rottweiler. There are many of her henchwomen type around the Yes campaign, officiously telling people how they should think. AS is darker and more sinister. I wouldn't say he was evil, its like there is a void where there should be a conscience. My instincts warn me off him and everything he says.

But its not all about the characters, its about the substantive content, and that remains lacking. The UK is hardly perfect, but its hardly the worst place in the world either, and there is reasonable freedom here which I suspect would be lacking in a State controlled independent Scotland.

lucky I don't think he is a strong enough character to run a party like the Conservatives who have such bitter divisions, and a coalition that was a first for the UK and run the country. I don't think he is a man in control of things or with the character to do so.

But they lost a child and I can't imagine their pain. And I do think he wants to help but is totally clueless as to how to get there. Still, he won't be getting in at the next election and the thought of Milliband is blergh. Although he didn't deserve what happened today at all.

I agree on Cherie Blair. I think she must have something that I (and many others) are missing. She has not done too badly for herself, so there must be something? Somewhere?

Okay, I've had a busy night and I've tried as best as I can to work out how many votes will be released when.

Based on frankie80's list, this is a rough percentage of the electorate declaring at each stage.

7 councils should declare at 2am. This is around 645,000 votes and approximately 15% of the total electorate.

Clackmannanshire should declare at 2.30. This is around 41,000 votes, approximately 0.1% of the total electorate.

11 councils should declare at 3am. This is around 1,370,000 votes, approximately 32% of the total electorate.

6 councils should declare at 3.30am. This is around 471,000 votes, approximately 11% of the total electorate.

2 councils should declare at 4am. This is around 479,000 votes, approximately 11% of the total electorate.

North Ayrshire should declare at 4.30am. This is around 108,800 votes, approximately 3% of the total electorate.

3 councils should declare at 5am, including Edinburgh and Glasgow. This is around 956,800 votes, approximately 22% of the electorate.

Aberdeen should be last, at 6am. This is around 181,600 votes, approximately 4% of the electorate.

Soooo if tonight's polls are anything to go by, it will be right down to the wire. Yikes.

Anyway, I must get to bed. You can all get your calculators out and see if my sums are right

NS is just his Rottweiler I think of her as more like my neighbour's really noisy dachshund that barks like it thinks it's a Rottweiler!

The UK is hardly perfect, but its hardly the worst place in the world either
So, so true. Sometimes when I hear people talking about what they want to change I do feel like their is a loss of perspective of how relatively good Scotland is. We're not some enslaved little colony.

Latte good good.

I think there will be enough going on that I'll last the night, from the list that someone (Stat i think) posted up early on the thread it looks like a result will come in every 5-10 minutes

Damn, momentarily thought this was tomorrow night, there another whole day of this. Gah.

So unless it's down to the last vote, we should know by 5am?