Indyref 11. The home of good manners

[grovel]

!0,000 and counting.

Sorry SDTG - cross-posted with your last post (was half way through my post and my supper was ready).

You know I'm always around to talk - and and

Fipinada that is the issue a lot of us have.

TeamScotland You would :) I'm 60/40 the other way.

I've got BT vision Latte - I'll go and have a butcher's at all the stations and see if BBC Scotland is on there.

thanks for the reply!

The currency issue is a big thing for me, always has been. A lot of people say it doesn't matter what we use but it is so much more complex than that. A currency union almost certainly won't be allowed by rUK, but if by some unlikely chance it was it would only be on incredibly strict terms. Credit Suisse linky reckoned that "If Scotland formed a sterling union, then it's likely that the UK would extract a high price in terms of potentially severe fiscal and regulatory commitments (i.e. Scotland may have to run a primary budget surplus..." Last your expenditure was £12 billion more than revenue (expenditure about £65 billion)

A few days ago Carney commented on Sterlingization which seems to be plan B. He was reluctant to tie himself down to exact numbers but said that to make it work Scotland would need to amass considerable reserves of currency. The lowest example he gave was 25% of GDP. He reckoned that to do that we'd have to run a 5-10% surplus. So that would be in the region of £17 billion we'd need to cut.

Those sort of cuts would just be devastating if they were necessary. There are other options which the credit suisse report discusses too.

LatteLover - I think and hope that things will be better, when we know, one way or the other. I think, until then, I shall do the televisual equivalent of hiding my head under the duvet, and watch The Big Bang Theory instead of the news!

Are people planning on staying up to see the early results come in?

I definitely will be up watching. Will we have a thread for that? Don't know if I can cope with the crowing that would come fromsome people should the vote be Yes.

I'll be up I think SDTG. I doubt I'll be able to sleep. They're expecting Glasgow to be one of the last results though so I suspect we won't know until 6ish at least

I'm 60/40 to the nos. there will be lots and lots of shy nos. I would be mortified to be out with better together branding, but I am now very stubbornly no. And I am not alone.

My dh was a yes, now a no. He was seduced by monbiot (having always been a big monbiot fan) and then realised it was actually going to be close. He felt like he woke up from a romantic dream. Ime and anecdotally there are lots of those types too.

If there is no currency union (which there won't be) or sterlingisation - what happens to all the scots living in rUK (600,000 I believe) who have funds held in Scottish bank accounts? I assume they could continue to hold the funds, but I'm also assuming they couldn't continue to receive salaries paid in rUK to those accounts, without involving an exchange rate cost?

This is personal to me, but I also get that I could easily change accounts. But if even half of the 600,000 exiled Scots had to do the same, the Scottish banks would surely lose 300,000 customers. Or am I missing something?

Statistically sorry it's took me ages to figure out why you were questioning me then linking to things that said what I thought I'd already said then read back and realised I missed out one word, more.

I'm on my phone which keeps dying on me.

Anyway, 600 more which is a big difference from what was originally talked about.

And the thread has probably moved on about 6 pages.

I don't think I'll stay up simply because I'm not physically capable of managing it. I'll go to bed but have told DH to wake me up if anything exciting happens. My dad is coming round to do the night shift with DH.

Nah ... no joy. Been right through all the stations (most of which I never knew were on there, but no BBC Scotland.

I'm really impressed by Ruth Davison on this debate. And as a non-Tory in every meaning of the term, this is saying something quite spectacular for me!

temporaryusername

I agree that it shouldn't be about an particular party. Indeed an independent Scotland would more than likely have a much more pluralist government that either Westminster or Holyrood currently have.

Personally I am voting Yes for more absolute reasons (although I will admit that my initial instinct towards Yes was partly coloured by disillusionment with the current makeup of Westminster politics). I think the system is broken and that Britain has not been properly democratic for a long time, but that the reforms necessary to make it a fairer and more representative nation will not happen without a severe shock to the establishment which benefits from that system. I also think that Scotland as a country should be a nation with the power to control its own future. I don't think the road to independence - if that is what is voted for this Thursday - will be easy but I think it is worth it.

Am I correct in thinking that you are based in England? May I ask - out of genuine curiosity - how you feel about the talk of increased devolution and even a form of UK federalism in the case of a 'No' vote?

Fontella - on sky, it's 951.

Hello to new posters!

I would like to be able to sleep but doubt I'll be able to. I think it probably will be a 55 yes, 45 no. Grim.

Fontella - have you found it?

SDTG - Big Bang Theory sounds like a good move. You stressing about it isn't going to change anything and will just make you worse I am going to stay up if it's being televised - I assume it will be like Election Results?

StatChal - I tend to feel that people who think 'it doesn't matter' don't actually understand that it does, it really does - and why.

WildThong - I hoped it would be a continuation of this thread series?!

I spent a couple of hours reading Wings Over Scotland threads this afternoon and I was deeply saddened. So much energy and passion seemingly being used for others' ends. There was much talk of Caledonia and the Finish Line and I saw nothing to give any hint that there was any real thought of afterwards on the part of any of the participants. Just 'Getting There'.

It was indeed as if they were in a dream.

the current makeup of Westminster politics

Sooooo it shouldn't be about parties but actually it is about the Tories?

That makes more sense LovleyRita.

DH wants to nominate Carol craig for PM.

With regard to defence, we have had Yes saying they will not need such a large defence force, then shrieking because the Royal Navy wasn't to hand when a Russian vessel was in Scottish waters.

We had to turn that 'debate' off. It's not so much the panellists as the audience.

Would much prefer just the panellists debating with each other at this late stage.

It's all very tense, isn't it , on both sides.

But I'm glad it's happening , I'm glad it's bring thrashed out.

Who's shrieking?

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome. I've got my tin hat on :).

I enjoyed that Carol Craig article, thanks OneNight for the link and what she says really chimes with me.

I wouldn't like to say what the result will be..I really think at the moment it's too close to call. All along I've thought it will be a 'no' vote, but a lot closer than people think. I'm not so sure now but I agree with Cedric that there's a lot of shy no voters about who are keeping their heads down.

Thank you for the link NC but I'm pretty much decided on a 'no' now, I think.

The lady in charge of the count ( sorry forget her name ) has said that the result will be announced around breakfast time on the 19th. I think, due to the numbers voting, it will be nearer lunchtime.

Was speaking to a "no" today who told us he was just not going to vote. Even though I'm a yes I told him he should vote, I can't understand anyone not voting.

Another friend is a no but voted yes in the postal vote as she's elderly and all her grandchildren are Yessers. She reckons it is about them and not her.