Indyref 11. The home of good manners

[grovel]

!0,000 and counting.

Well thank you for that valuable contribution, I'm sure lots of posters on both sides appreciate being tokd their opinions are pish

If Alex and Nicola aren't worried about what they are going to do then I'd be concerned by that. Even a rampant pro indy like them should have concerns about whether it will work out. To have no worries is wilful naivety. Rampant optimism is not enough.

Sorry numanoid that was a kind of delayed response re the polls to earlier chat saying that half of the electorate wanted it at the holyrood election. Support in those who voted for other parties was single digit from what I remember.

I'm not sure they actually are optimistic about the future SC but their spin doctors (remember that American training?) have told them to 'appear' optimistic. Jim Sillars just slipped off message for a bit in a fit of forgetfulness.

Ah yes, Sillars and his Day of Eck-oning. Did you read his response to the criticism he received? Apols if it's already been linked to

www.1001campaign.com/news/

'I deliberately ranted'

'My speech sent the Daily Mail into hysterics, it had a political orgasm so excited did it become in making me the mad mullah of nationalism. Not a bad day’s work.'

"No people", is that how you see 50% of the electorate?

Reflects AS opinion that "there is no such thing as a no voter, just a deferred yes"

Insulting and patronising.

I think you may be surprised when the shy nos come out. Again - look at the bookies odds before you start gloating.

I think that can be said on both sides. I know a lot of Yes voters who are keeping very quiet about it - and one who 'publicly' says they are voting No to avoid conflict at work, but will vote Yes on the day.

I realise the opposite will be happening with others (as in changing sides), but within the last week to 10 days, the No voters I know (except for one) have changed their minds.

I think it is close, and unfortunately an outright majority for either side doesn't look likely. :(

I think that teamscotland slipped a bit off message too with barely disguised contempt for us "nos". Up until then I had no massive issue with her posts.

I think closer to 40%

Stuff to do, enjoy your debate among yourselves

I saw poll results last night that said at the time of the holyrood election only 69% of those who voted snp wanted independence. So it wasn't even a majority of those who voted at the last election who wanted this. A fair number voted snp as a 'not labour or tory 'option by the looks of it.

This is what happens back in Wales Stat

We'd vote Plaid as a protest almost or, if it was a local bloke, a good candidate (and the mainstream parties really were shit at picking suitable candidates - they'd send some English bloke from Milton Keynes (or wherever) who couldn't pronounce 'Llandudno' (insert Welsh place name of choice here) to the wilds of Wales and expect him to run against a Plaid candidate.

But honestly, if voting Plaid had got us into a position whereby we'd be looking at independence we'd have shit ourselves! I've voted Plaid myself a few times and I would never in a million years have wanted independence. We know what side our bread's buttered thanks very much. Yeah we moan and groan - Edward III, English 'b*stards, let's kick their arses at Rugby, twll din pob sais (look it up ), and yes, we have posturing nationalists who want an independent Wales, but for most of us it's a no brainer.

In Scotland, I gather from what you've written that the SNP got into power for a number of reasons that had nothing to do with independence for many who voted for them, and now because of the ineptitude of WM and the stubborness and instransigence of both sides, here we are .. on the verge of breaking up a 300 year old Union?

True Onenight!

one
Jim Sillars just slipped off message for a bit in a fit of forgetfulness

Ah yes, dear old Jim, even Elaine Smith tried her damnedest to explain his tirade as because he is getting old "he's 76 you know", in last nights debate. Epic fail.

There is some total pish on this thread but I doubt it's the same pish TeamScotland is reading.

If the yes camp win, wee Eck and his posse will be slaughtered in future polls when all his fiction can't translate into fact. So his days are numbered either way.

In real life, none of the yes voters I know worship or even like AS. They are Green No's (your hippy mates, as my DH likes to call them). They are as turned off by the Scary Nationalist Party as a lot of No voters are.

I have seen more and more No Thanks placards and stickers going up...it makes me glad to see them. We're all here and we've not had our minds changed by the arrogance or aggression of the Bravehearts. I'm on Team Scotland, I want what's best for my country...doesn't mean I'll be bullied into voting Yes though.

It's okay Statistically, I panicked a bit when I saw 'Threads I'm On' because I thought the replies were to me, and I wondered if what I'd said had come across wrong!

t/s
Don't let the door bang your arse on the way out

All the countries in the EU are supremely proud of their own national heritage, as are countries that more recently joined the EU. It has nothing to do with sovereign identity.

The Yes campaign spectacularly miss the point that all these countries have been independent, trading and operating as independent entities for quite some time. Scotland has NONE of this in place. Currently, and hopefully after Friday all being well, it is part of the UK and operates as such. Should the unthinkable occur and it is a Yes vote, you have to start all over again. How people can miss the implications of this I have no idea.

I see leaving the EU as a risk. It is not going to happen. Of those that bothered to vote, 75% voted for non UKIP parties. The UK is not prepared to commit financial suicide, unlike some voters of the Yes campaign.

Ireland is recovering - and I've not heard any requests from them to rejoin the UK. Of course not. It happened over 100 years ago! And there is true oppression, not what Scotland has experienced. I'm not picking you up on that example - you know it is a rubbish one already.

I recognise that there will be pain - but I'm prepared to take the risk

How much pain do you anticipate? And what do you see as the risks?

I am deeply cynical about the Westminster Government (of whatever colour) and suspect that in 15 50 whatever number of years, once the oil has indeed run out (or is no longer needed wink), then they will be surprisingly desirous of amenable to a split hmm.

My tin foil hat has gone on. Could it just be that they are trying to save the whole of the UK? You know, because they don't want people to go? And why, out of interest and removing my tin foil hat, are Souter and Co so outspoken against the Union. If we are on conspiracy theories then just maybe they have something to gain financially at the detriment of millions. There's always money to be made in the midst of chaos.

My last thought is back to those ascension nations to the EU. I had the misfortune to see what happened to those countries as they tried, rightly, to establish themselves after what happened to them after the war and years of communism. For anyone to compare Scotland to their circumstances is indeed very wrong. And can I please also point out that it has taken some 20+ years or more and still things are not resolved. Fortunately no, Scotland isn't one of these and maybe it might only take 10 years of unrelenting misery to start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not interested in being dragged down to appease anyone's ideological craziness.

I agree that yes doesn't necessarily equal snp supporter. I think the deciding vote will come down to disillusioned Labour supporters and I also think those are the people the yes and no campaigns are trying to target.

It's not really independence though is it? (Unless as I said upthread they intend to close the borders and let us grow potatoes in our back gardens to eat.) It's separation.

Tilliebob

tillie

I am relatively optimistic too, for Friday. The yes voters are loud and brash and thump things and take their shirts off as they parade in the High Street.

But Scots are canny and clever. We aren't the successful nation we are because we are hoodwinked by megalomaniacs.We are also measured and reserved. We heed multiple reports and businesses advising when something isn't sensible.

Perhaps not representative of all yes voters, but they are being whipped into a frenzy. And it is like Braveheart now. My sister's friend tried to offer help at a "No" stand in the Meadows yesterday, whereupon he was set upon and verbally assaulted by ten yes voters using revolting language. Just appalling behaviour which is being underplayed by the media (bias, anyone? shall we go and protest or remain quietly shocked...)

The yes voters will simply disengage the remaining undecideds who I assume to be the most reserved and thoughtful of the lot of us. I would also respectfully suggest that there can't be many no voters who are now moving to yes. That would be very odd in light of the business focus of the last week.

But no side should remotely think about celebrations yet. If the no vote prevails, I will only breathe one enormous sigh of relief and perhaps shed a tear of joy that we have avoided uncertain catastrophe.

I was assuming that Braveheart would be featuring somewhere in the telly schedules on Wednesday night? Don't even get me started on that work of fiction.....

I would disagree slightly Rooners. I don't think either side should move to celebrations ever. No-one will 'win' in this business the damage that has already been caused to the country being so great.

I agree OneNight. Whatever happens on Friday it will not be cause for celebration. IMO.

We'll just have to agree to differ as to our motivations livingzuid :)

I was born in South Africa and visit regularly as I still have family there. I've lived in New Zealand and still have friends there. I've lived in France. I have relatives in Denmark and Germany. I have worked in and with Iceland (both before and after the Kreppa as they call it). I have worked for various international companies in both sales and marketing ( proper marketing product management in the business to business sectors, not marcomms ). I have worked for various parts of the public sector. I have worked as a management consultant for one of the Big 8 (shows how long ago that was ). I have a breadth of experience about which I am grateful.

I think I have proven over the threads that I am not uneducated.

I would've voted No in 1979 and was happy that I effectively contributed towards the No vote . I've changed my view.

I have thought through and am comfortable with my decision. :)

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