Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Indyref 11. The home of good manners

999 replies

grovel · 14/09/2014 18:37

!0,000 and counting.

OP posts:
Toadinthehole · 14/09/2014 19:35

KingscoteStaff

Sorry if I've missed this, but has any plan been made for the Scottish regiments of the British Army?

Salmond and co were proposing that rUK and iScotland create a joint defence force. It was in reply to Sir George Zambellas' (head of navy) statement that Scottish independence would make the current UK territory harder to defend.

So in other words, we don't know, and what little we do know is based on the assumption that rUK and iScotland would enter yet another cross-border arrangement to their mutual satisfaction.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 19:36

In terms of their set up? Yes the plan is to reinstate all the regiments again that were emalgamated in 2006.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 14/09/2014 19:36

Freddie thank god for small mercies :) Wine < now you are home!

WildThong · 14/09/2014 19:36

Ah, sorry, I see that was sorted. I need to rtft before sticking my oar in.

AnnieHoo · 14/09/2014 19:37

squoosh you couldn't make it up!

We are awash with irony.

StatisticallyChallenged · 14/09/2014 19:39

There is some information in the White Paper re defence. A poster on an earlier thread who knew a lot about it basically said that it was a very poor plan which seemed to not appreciate what assets/experience were needed to operate effectively and that they had cherry picked some things to keep without a particularly logical argument

AnnieHoo · 14/09/2014 19:40

Journalists are calling on other journalists to condemn the attacks on Nick Robertson.

ChelsyHandy · 14/09/2014 19:41

The fuss over what Salmond did and didn't say to the tv journalist reminds me of the fuss over that union official that led to the INEOS dispute at Grangemouth, and smacks to me of attention-seeking tantrums by egotists.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 14/09/2014 19:41

cedric I agree.

All of the 'we could have a cross-border arrangement' stuff Salmond is spouting, feels like we will be more tied together than now!

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 19:43

There's a wealth of plans for defence in the white paper.

Is the poster asking specifically about the regimental set up as I know that has been a huge issue for some people who felt Scottish regiments were stripped of their identity a few years back.

AnnieHoo · 14/09/2014 19:44

Well I'm voting to be defended by the British Army, Royal Navy and RAF.

Fontella · 14/09/2014 19:51

All of the 'we could have a cross-border arrangement' stuff Salmond is spouting, feels like we will be more tied together than now!

A point well emphasised in an article posted on the other thread.

It's the Telegraph - right wing, no doubt 'biased' ....Hmm - but to my mind a good read and there is some in it that I personally agree with and indeed, had written about on here, prior to reading the article.

Whatever side of this debate you are on it's worth a read particularly in relation to currency union

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11094601/Scottish-independence-Yes-campaign-every-bit-as-dodgy-as-Iraq-dossier.html

Toadinthehole · 14/09/2014 19:53

Found this quote from Alex Salmond on the Robinson business:

Of course it is. The problem with Nick [Robinson] … I mean, don’t get me wrong, I like these folk, but they don’t realise they’re biased. It’s the unconscious bias which is the most ­extraordinary thing of all. If the BBC were covering, in my estimation, any referendum, in any democracy, anywhere in the world, they would cover it impeccably, in a balanced fashion. What they don’t understand is they’re players in this.

Surely this is all beside the point. The relevant question is whether Salmond answered Robinson's question.

Robinson's question was why should voters take Salmond's view over that of various senior bankers and oil companies.

Salmond's reply was (before he did anything else) was to accuse the reporter of bias. Then he said that moving a corporate HQ to London wouldn't move taxable activity.

So first, he didn't answer the question. At best he simply implied either that the people Robinson mentioned didn't mean what they said, or that Robinson was misreporting them.

As an aside, the tax consequences of moving a corporate HQ would depend on the tax laws in rUK and iScotland, and the cross-border tax agreements they would have in place. I expect Salmond had banks in mind in his answer. I imagine that if the banks want to base themselves in a country that controls its own currency, south is precisely where their taxable activity would be going.

brontolo · 14/09/2014 19:54

I'm amazed at the BBC protests. I've watched the full you tube clips - salmond didn't answer the question directly, he talked around it with his own agenda of attempting to rubbish the bbc's reporting on lloyds and the treasury stuff. Salmond has an amazing talent - not unusual for politicians - of talking convincingly so he appears to know what he is talking about and appears to give answers. But in this case, he really didn't. Again, fairly typical for politicians and robinson's reporting of it was perhaps slightly aggressive. But protests about it calling for his resignation are absurd.

JustSayNoNoNo · 14/09/2014 19:56

I'm sure it's been linked to before, but this article by Robert Peston makes some good points about the economy. If it helps even one person to make up their mind how to vote I will be happy.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 19:57

Under Westminster current plans there will be only 600 armed forces personell based in Scotland.

Leachers is winding down and despite being surrounded by water there are currently no major ships based here. In fact it took over 24 hours for a naval ship to reach the north Sea to check out a unexplained Russian ship in our waters.

It's all a bit grim.

Independence means control over defence that we don't have now.

The priorities laid out are around trident (getting rid of) and faslane becoming a bew hq. Over ten years building up to 15000 regular personell in Scotland. That will be phased.

There are transitional plans in place as obviously rUK and Scottish services are intertwined. Neither will leave the other at risk.

OneNight · 14/09/2014 19:58

He's just a politician brontolo. A good one but no god. I've heard many people say that they wouldn't mind him at their back in a rough pub or a dark alley but that that would be it.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 20:00

By 2020 that should read (re the 600 personnel)

brontolo · 14/09/2014 20:02

Onenight - is he actually a good politician? I'm not sure I even know what a good politician is! He's pretty standard - talks a good talk while saying very little.

AnnieHoo · 14/09/2014 20:02

The debate's on bbc 1 now if anyone wants to watch.

Fontella · 14/09/2014 20:03

They really do need to lay off this 'scaremongering' 'conspiracy' business. If it's not the banks - domestic or foreign, big business, the press, the BBC, financial analysts, military analysts, Westminster, international commentators and observers - it seems every single person who has voiced a contradictory view to Alec Salmond and the SNP/separatist movement are scaremongering or part of a conspiracy.

They would do themselves more favours were they to say 'well actually he does have a point and this is how we propose to deal with it' .. but nothing is addressed or responded to - it's just relentless claims of 'scaremongering' and vague platitudes that they have it right and everyone else has it wrong.

This is what concerns me most as an outside observer. How are people just accepting this as the basis on which to build an independent country?

WildThong · 14/09/2014 20:03

Anyone watching tonight's debate?

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 20:05

The protests today aren't solely reactions to that one incident.

IrnBruTheNoo · 14/09/2014 20:08

bit.ly/1uNDmJ6 Here is the link to view A Night For Scotland gig at the Usher Hall. It started live at 7pm, but you can watch it just now - Ricky Ross on at the moment.

AnnieHoo · 14/09/2014 20:10

Wildthong looks like the audience have been split to sit either side of seating. The clapping competition is making me giggle a bit Grin.