Indyref 11. The home of good manners

[grovel]

!0,000 and counting.

The SNP won an election with an abysmal turnout. 26% of the electorate voted for them. The vast majority didn't.

And that post is also revealing. Thank you for that as well.

My concern is, if I vote no, then should the result be yes, all of sudden I'm living in an independent country.

So, yes people then say well you can always move.

Well, I could. But you can't move, just like that, unless you have a lot of money and resources to hand, which I don't. We're on a very low income so managing financially will be a big challenge

Also, my son was born here, I'm separated from his Dad, so how is that going to work? And what about my job? And my sons school - he would be uprooted to a new place, having to deal with a new school, a different system, away from all his friends.

I know this sounds very 'me,me,me' but these are all real, life changing things.

That post was to Rita. I forget how quickly this thread moves.

Status quo

For me it's;
living in a society where ordinary people are increasingly punished for being poor ie benefits sanctions leaving people unable to feed their children, tax on a person who dares to have a spare bedroom

Being told that austerity is necessary, then visiting my old city, London and seeing the sheer scale of investment going on there, the economy booming

Seeing Boris Johnson dismissed as a clown by Scottish labour politicians - oh how smug they were, the idiots.

Seeing the NHS privatised and the complacency of. 'It'll never happen up here .'

Seeing no credible alternative to the Tories and feeling unwilling to, yet again, duck it up and wait for a Labour victory whenever that might be.

Of course none of the supermarkets will use it as an opportunity to make their prices more competitive.

I looked into postal vote as there was talk of one of the sons being away for the vote. I got the feeling the scrutiny was better in fact than just turning up on the day and waving your card! A postal vote needs a signature for one thing. There was a report of major electoral fraud at the last GE, in a particular area in England. It was in Lancs I think. I think after that the rules were tightened up. Well, as my old dad used to say 'Vote early, vote often'. But he was only joking.

TeamScotland the more I read of your posts the more I am starting to think you are a wind up merchant. You surely can't be as crass and insensitive as your posts suggest?

TeamScotland if that's your grip on economics, it would explain your 'yes' vote.

The fear card comes out on a regular basis on these threads because it's impossible to argue against without sounding like a complete cunt.

Jobs go, people go, jobs come and people come. If you're in a job that's so ingrained in you that you allow it to dictate every aspect of your life then you must be on tenterhooks at all times.

No one knows what jobs will go next week, independent or dependant.

Austerity will be necessary in independent Scotland.

The SNP are privatising the NHS already.

Latte

Ooo rita ! Where's your civic nationalism now?

Jobs go. Taxes go. Tax receipts go down. Governments cut back. People suffer.

They were elected by majority.

No shows don't come into it. It's like 79 all over again

And Salmond likes to take the language, set the agenda. He is an absolute master at getting debates on his terms.

Salmond wanted devo max on the ballot paper - an option that would completely have destroyed any chance of a "Yes" vote.

Roseforme I am really sorry that you feel this way. Maybe I'm just an incurable optimist but I think if there is a "hangover" from this debate it will be positive rather than negative. If there's a "No" vote then this debate will still have got so many people engaged in political issues and thinking and talking about issues that they perhaps would never have considered before. I think that overall it's been empowering on both sides.

Moreover, I have fond friends and neighbours who are voting No -- and whatever the result, I don't intend to change the way I treat them, even if from my point of view they have voted against something that I feel passionate about. Are there ways to build bridges after all this is over?

I fear very much that the result will be very close to 50:50. Half of the country will be dragged into something they don't want and will be very upset. It's not going to be a happy result either for Scotland or for relations with the UK, whichever way it goes.

As for the Sun, it will jump whichever way Murdoch dictates. He is still smarting from being held up to ridicule over the illegality of his lousy papers, and he's looking forward to using them for revenge against Westminster.

There you go with your crystal ball again, santana

Carol Craig -

The Scottish National party and the yes campaign it dominates want independence at any price. They place so much weight on optimism at any cost that we find ourselves a nation once respected for its emphasis on reason and common sense in a position where healthy scepticism and inconvenient truths are demonised as scaremongering lies

Seligman argues that optimism has considerable benefits, for instance, in keeping us healthy or achieving sporting success. But pessimism can matter more. It keeps us alive. Seligman argues there are times when it makes sense to be optimistic and times when it is better to be pessimistic. Ask what the cost of failure is in the particular situation, he counsels. If the cost of failure is high, optimism is the wrong strategy.

If the cost of failure is high, optimism is the wrong strategy

and I hope this is the way many people will view things when they vote.

This is what these threads descend to. A pity party, a race to the bottom. It's useless.

It was going quite well.

I can't support such rabid individualism.

No, Rita, you cannot claim that 'so many people wanted this question answered' when 902,915 people out of 4 million voted for the SNP.

Are there ways to build bridges after all this is over?

In some cases yes in some cases no I fear. Even for those cases where an improvement can be made it will take a huge amount of work and that's work which many of those on this thread are prepared to undertake.

Sadly, it sounds as if some are not.

Do you realise how fucking offensive you are?

DH's job will move. End of. We have known this from the start. It is not a joke.

You really believe the SNP won't push again? If they are there with a majority? The line would be they are letting people down.

As for how they got there I know plenty of people who voted for them for their social policies which have largely been put to one side not for the nationalism and are bitterly regretting it.

I note no one on the yes side has commented on Eck and Nicola's lack of concern over the routine arming of police in Scotland. I know it's a side issue but you're all happy with it ?

fontella where do you feel I've been crass and insensitive?