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Indyref 10. The Marathon Continues..

999 replies

WildThong · 13/09/2014 11:18

All welcome

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
SantanaLopez · 13/09/2014 11:22

Signing in! Any thoughts about the Deutsche Bank?

WildThong · 13/09/2014 11:32

Saw that article this morning..
I don't think this guy can be accused of bias,
link
Scroll to bottom for quotes

OP posts:
Spiritedwolf · 13/09/2014 11:34

Hello again :)

I'd like to quote the post by Roseformeplease in case it gets overlooked on the tail end of the last thread. I didn't know what was already going on in the tourist industry, and feel it's a good example of how Scotland's prosperity is because of being part of the UK, not in spite of it.

"A lot of Yes voters seem to think that the people who leave, or lose their jobs are wealthy, Tory, and we could do without them. I want to share a story of someone who changed their mind to No recently, and why."

"We rent out a Highland holiday cottage and it is full for most of the year, creating one day of work a week for a cleaner. We employ someone who is self-employed to do this, alongside DH,every week. She was unemployed, working (not for us) cash in hand. The local job centre (who are lovely, and helpful) encouraged and supported her to set up as a self-employed cleaner and she now earns about £350 a week. This she spends on supporting her 9 year old daughter."

"She was a Yes but is now a No. She told one owner she was a Yes because "It will be better for people like me" and the owner explained the cottage was going on the market. Another is thinking of selling, but might just keep it for family. We are the third and we too will have to sell."

"1/2 to 2/3 of our business comes from England. They love the Highlands. By now we normally have 12-16 weeks booked for next year. We currently have 2. We cannot afford the repayments on the mortgage. (Long story, but let's just say we are reluctant landlords). However, in the short term, we won't be able to pay her £50 a week to clean. DH will have to manage alone."

"Now, we personally will cope. I am a teacher and earn a reasonable salary. DH has another part time job. But, she will struggle if that is the picture all around the area."

"And this is the amazing Scottish tourist industry, as it is working, at the moment, on the ground. I could give you other tales of hotel bookings cancelled, house sales falling through but this one wee story should help you to understand the economic cost of independence, on a tiny scale."

"She is now a No, and is working to change the minds of others who also have fairly lowly paid jobs that rely on tourism, before it is too bloody late."

"Hope, dreams, la la ideas about the EU and currency. They don't keep this single mother working in a job that gives her pride and makes her feel a success. She is a small business owner. (she even had someone helping her part time over the summer, making her an employer). She will be fucked come Friday, back on the dole within months."

"Oh, and there will be no money to pay for her dole because all the higher rate taxpayers will have left."

TeamScotland · 13/09/2014 11:34

Yes Grin

Happy New Thread

alibet · 13/09/2014 11:34

I see more & more 'Shy Nos' putting their heads above the parapet and attempting to convince Yes/Undecideds, now they realise how crucial this is for our & our children's futures.

There has been a real passion & energy from the No side over the past week.

Hopefully commonsence will prevail and current Yes voters will realise you can't form a new state on wooly wishful thinking; something based on a White Paper where everything is Best Case scenario, with no contingecy planning for the potential impact on jobs, tax revenue, retail costs, etc highlighted this week.

That the Nationalists have tried to deny these issues or pretend they don't exist, should tell you everything you need to know come polling day.

- Totally agree, Raintown.

brontolo · 13/09/2014 11:43

I'm really hoping for common sense prevailing too. I don't begrudge the yes voters who are looking for an improvement to things - but I struggle to see how independence will do this when the numbers and hard evidence say otherwise.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 13/09/2014 11:49

Just marking my spot cos I keep missing big chunks of the discussion.

Can I ask about this?

Watching the press preview last night on sky, Bonnie Greer made some interesting points & I was wondering what the view was of the 'other side' of the business/financial view that Armageddon isn't necessarily the obvious outcome if it's a yes. This from the BBC is the comments from the founder of the Aberdeen Asset Management co who is saying the opposite to other financial institutions regarding the fall out from a yes result. Greer's view was why is he saying this, with his knowledge/involvement in the FS industry when so many others are saying the opposite. And tbh that's my query here too. If it's so clear & obvious that the markets will fall, the arse will fall out of iScotland's financial standing, is this guy as deluded as BT say salmond is?

Is this one asset management co founder simply a patriotic dreamer or is there more to his view? It puzzles me that his position seems at odds with plenty of others within the same industry.

cedricsneer · 13/09/2014 11:50

I worry that BT have done so much harm. Just seen their latest Facebook picture of their campaigners - so generic (my dad fits the brief perfectly so I have no axe to grind - I just think it is an alienating image). I fear that the big Ariel no in edinburgh will alienate people as well - rightly or wrongly the nos have been typecast as toffs.

I wish there was a strong alternative voice for no - the guardian comment came closest for me. I am a socialist no and I know many, many others. But somehow with fb cover pictures cropping up all over the place with Union jacks I can't help but think of UKIP.

I don't know what I am saying really - just that they have not represented me very well and I am annoyed if that turns people to yes - particularly those who don't research the really strong arguments for no.

SquattingNeville · 13/09/2014 11:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PhaedraIsMyName · 13/09/2014 11:55

I would like to see a Yes voter try to explain away the Deustsche bank report.

I would also like a Yes supporter explain why Eck handed back powers to WM rather than use them.

I would also like a Yes supporter to explain why none of them apparently have any concerns that Scottish police are being routinely armed.

EarthWindFire · 13/09/2014 11:56

Well Jim Sillars has certainly has stirred up a hornets nest understatement the latest to say that the comments are a tad short sighted another understatement is the boss of Iceland stores.

SquattingNeville · 13/09/2014 11:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PhaedraIsMyName · 13/09/2014 11:57

Wasn't Aberdeen Asset Management on the brink of going spectacularly under due to risky investment decisions not that long ago?

EarthWindFire · 13/09/2014 11:58

Yep squatting. That has been reported quite widely today.

SquattingNeville · 13/09/2014 11:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

brontolo · 13/09/2014 11:59

Fairly insignificant in the grand scheme, but my husband and I both still use our Edinburgh based bank accounts as our main accounts. Would we have to change this in the event of a yes vote? I suppose it depends on the as-yet-unanswered currency question (as do so many other unanswered questions).

EarthWindFire · 13/09/2014 12:01

Ah sorry, I've not been online much today and my sister just sent me that link in disbelief

Sorry I didn't mean on here I meant in the news Blush

OneNight · 13/09/2014 12:06

I think that's right cedric.

The BT campaign has been badly handled and there's also no question in my mind that there will be a lot of work to be done after the vote to bring Scotland back together in some way and to move political debate forward.

I see no substantive evidence of will on the part of either party to do that which saddens me although I'm quizzical as to how, if they win, the Yes campaign would even attempt that in a situation which will probably be deeply unstable.

Spiritedwolf · 13/09/2014 12:06

I'm a left of centre no. I'm not the biggest fan of Better Together and would align myself more with United with Labour. :)

Spiritedwolf · 13/09/2014 12:07

(Scottish Labour's campaigning materials)

Spiritedwolf · 13/09/2014 12:11

But there are lots of people voting No. Including Robin Harper previous co-convener the Scottish greens.

I love Carol Craig's article too.

cedricsneer · 13/09/2014 12:19

But unfortunately bt is the face of the campaign. We need someone very very high profile, left, feminist and progressive to stand up now.

alibet · 13/09/2014 12:21

More anecdotal stuff re Tourism: an English colleague and 3 friends come North every August for a weekend's golf at Gleneagles.

I asked how they'd enjoyed it, mentioning the scenery, Ryder Cup, etc.

"It was fantastic," he said, "but we won't be back. We could sense a real hostility in the local pubs when they heard our accents. Something has definitely changed about Scotland."

I witnessed similar examples at the Festival. This is what Salmond's divisive & manipulative comments have unleashed - a latent racism against the English.

Bad enough on its own, but potentially ruinous for the industry when over 60% of its income comes from the rest of the UK.

PhaedraIsMyName · 13/09/2014 12:21

" there were more important issues facing Scotland than rearranging ‘constitutional deckchairs"

Love it.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 13/09/2014 12:23

Phaedral do you have any links to that? Because when I've heard people talking about this asset management co, plenty have referred to them as one of the largest/successful of their ilk. I don't pay too much attention to asset management cos in general so they haven't been on my radar & I'm no clearer on how credible they are in a sea of naysayers about the finances of iScotland.

I agree with Cedric too - BT has been shockingly bad & I think plenty of heads should roll in that camp. It's one of the reason this isn't an easy straightforward no for me - devo max, as flimsy as it is (instead of being the clear, well argued, well thought out option it should have been) is just unravelling every time I read something about it. Gordon brown has no sway or authority to make the promises he's made re this & it's still down to the outcome of the next GE as to whether labour would get the majority that would allow them to implement the extra powers. There are Tory MPs questioning this & hinting they'd oppose these moves, even though they're aware that the no vote hinges on this for many.

I've said elsewhere that devo max would have been my choice if it was on the ballot paper. I'd have been clearer on voting no if there had been cross party discussion/debate/agreement on devo max at the beginning of this campaign 2 years ago because it would have shown that WM had sat up & taken notice of the discontent the SE had laid bare, & seriously considered what response to that was required for the Scottish electorate. But the current situation in BT makes me doubt the fact devo max will actually happen. It's all too 'back of an envelope' thinking for my liking & WM thinking they didn't have to bother to do much about the referendum. Relying on polls that said there wasn't any real appetite for independence as justification to do nothing is a poor reflection on WM listening to & understanding what's happening in Scotland.

I just don't trust the WM MPs behind this because they failed to act when they should have & I fully anticipate they'll fail somehow even if it's no.