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Indyref 10. The Marathon Continues..

999 replies

WildThong · 13/09/2014 11:18

All welcome

OP posts:
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8
oddcommentator · 13/09/2014 13:46

Oh I stand by them 100%. I see it on the street and on these threads.

I see it in the casual racism and the cynical exploitation of that racism by the Yes side.

So i stand by them.

Roseformeplease · 13/09/2014 13:48

Sadly, bronya, Scotland has already been badly, badly damaged. My neighbours are angry with me; I am slightly scared of them. There is visceral, passionate hatred on the streets. Anyone dissenting, or reasoning is shouted down.

What about the currency?

What about the EU?

We can't do business here as easily.

Criseyde · 13/09/2014 13:50

Ok. So you're no longer denying that you are drawing a direct comparison between the political context of a democratic referendum in Scotland in 2014 and the atrocities in "Bolivia, bader meinhof, the cultural revolution of the 70's in China under Mao or cambodias killing fields." You stand by this.

Glad we got that cleared up.

oddcommentator · 13/09/2014 13:54

Keep picking away and making the deletions.

I stand by the assertion that the bright eyed revolutionaries not listening to reason leads to tragedy.

Pick away.

Criseyde · 13/09/2014 13:56

Pick away? At a direct, and intentional comparison between a democratic referendum and the Khmer Rouge?

Luckytwo · 13/09/2014 14:02

I am very concerned to be honest about the damage this whole thing has done whatever the outcome ! It started out as a dream for some, a decent honest dream where Scottish people could be the masters of their own destiny. But what has happened in the last few weeks has shown a Scotland I am not too happy about. We have the orange lodge wandering about waving their flags, sectarianism rearing it's ugly head above the parapet of an old firm game , we are suggesting blockades in the North Sea and separatists in the islands wanting their own independence now. There's anti Scottish sentiment in rUK These things are nothing to do with RBS and big business but a country I'm turmoil. Whatever way Thursday goes and I'm inclined to believe it will be a 60:40 vote for no the consequences will be lasting.

OneNight · 13/09/2014 14:04

I disagree with the tone of all oddcommentator's remarks but I think that comparing this to a democratic referendum is like comparing cage fighting to boxing under the Queensbury rules.

Roonerspism · 13/09/2014 14:04

Isn't the aberdeen asset manager guy one of Salmond's best buds? I think they go back a long way.

I too am shocked and upset at the change in scotland. There was always a slight undertone of English resentment - mainly in jest. But that has been fuelled and fed into the nasty and unpleasant rhetoric we are now seeing. God forbid the vote goes through.

And if it does, and we welcome austerity Scotland, what then? Nothing like poverty to feed hatred and divisions.

Nationalism - nasty stuff. Salmond dresses his up as "nice" but we are have no more higher morals than any other country for whom nationalism has gripped the nation. If the economy slides like it is forecast to, I fear for the narrow minded racial tensions and violence that will ensue.

PhaedraIsMyName · 13/09/2014 14:05

and separatists in the islands wanting their own independence now

Is that the case or is it to remain in the UK?.

OneNight · 13/09/2014 14:07

They have for some time. Shetland for one could easily afford it. The other islands also if the Western reaches oil materialised.

lem73 · 13/09/2014 14:10

I always respected Nationalists for their passion but the complete irresponsibility of Salmond and co is beyond comprehension.
I worry about my 72 year old parents. My husband used to tease them about property prices crashing but I now think the risks go beyond that. I have a Greek friend who has to send his elderly mother money as the Greek government haven't been paying her pension. It doesn't seem so ridiculous now to imagine an independent Scottish government in similar dire straits.

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 13/09/2014 14:10

There is absolutely no desire for " separation" in the islands. No voters like to chunter on about "What if Shetland wants indy from Scotland?" because that's supposed to make us think, "Oh no, we'll lose the oil!" and look like grubby hypocrites, it's a low blow. In fact if Shetland did go indy, they'd be an enclave of rUK and have only 12 miles of seabed; the oil is much, much further out.

PhaedraIsMyName · 13/09/2014 14:10

Isn't the aberdeen asset manager guy one of Salmond's best buds? I think they go back a long way

I don't know but AAM is a tiny player in the sector. Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank and UBS all disagree with AAM.

AAM may well have its own agenda and if you read my link they are clearly not averse to gambling foolishly with other people's money

OneNight · 13/09/2014 14:11

I think you may have been misinformed on those points OldLadyKnowsSomething.

Luckytwo · 13/09/2014 14:12

Just people spouting off I think but it makes us all sound daft tbh. I very much fear for the future. There's no going back from here never mind from the consequences of aches vote.

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 13/09/2014 14:12

I'm not, but thanks for your concern, OneNight. :)

oddcommentator · 13/09/2014 14:12

Cris - please do keep deliberately misinterpreting. It is amusing but it does however detract from the central point.

The rise of anti-english sentiment and the support by the yes campaign to villlify their opponents as traitors and quislings as somehow unscottish is darkly and unpleasantly reminiscent of how a number of ultimately - and i use that word deliberately - ultimately unpleasant political revolutions turn out.

It might be a few of us called English Cunts. or our kids getting told they are being sent home. But if it goes unchecked it will only grow. To hear and see yes campaigners minimise this, to laugh off posters getting defaced, to see videos ridiculing opposing ideas is how it always starts.

bit of casual racism -" hey stop complaining - we are only joking"

  • "people who vote no are traitors"

It is ugly and in many cases this is how the terrible events of living memory unfold. It doesnt happen all at once - it starts small. I want no part of this and instead of challenging the casual hatred you attack those who call it out as dangerous as - oh yes scaremongering or hysterical.

Yes it is ultra extreme to bring the utter horror of Cambodia into this and yes i may well be criticised for doing so - but it starts with the acceptance of hating your neighbour, it gets picked up by a political movement

I hope that this all dies down next week and we can move on what ever the result - but a lot of the rhetoric from the yes campaign is lighting a fire that will burn unchecked.

So am i wrong to look at how the tragedies start and say that I see a startling worrying similarity.

But - oh yes - it wouldn't happen here.

squoosh · 13/09/2014 14:13

.

PhaedraIsMyName · 13/09/2014 14:14

Oldlady No voters "chunter on" about the Northern Isles voting no because so far they don't seem very interested in Yes. As far as I'm concerned it has nothing to do with oil.

I agree the islands are not calling for complete separation but there's definitely a movement for sticking with the UK.

BardarbungaBardarbing · 13/09/2014 14:16

.

dementedma · 13/09/2014 14:17

Letter in the Telegraph from not one, but five, former First Sea Lords, expressing concern from the naval view point about how Scotland will be unable to defend itself and challenging the claim that an independent Scotland will have its own force of regulars and reservists within 10 years.(makes one wonder who is going to defend us in the ten years its going to take!) Comments were sconded by deputey supreme allied Commander for Europe. Given their positions and collective experience, one might think these guys could have a point.
Response from SNP minister Keith Brown?
"Scaremongering!"
It is genuinely terrifying.

Luckytwo · 13/09/2014 14:18

Aches vote ???? Daft phone. Yes vote.

OneNight · 13/09/2014 14:19

Phaedra

They feel as remote from central belt politics as many of the central belt population do from Westminster. Shetlanders see Norway, for example, as a more natural Big Daddy.

oddcommentator · 13/09/2014 14:20

we might as well swap the word scaremongering for the word wibble.

alibet · 13/09/2014 14:22

lem73: Any thoughts about the Orange Walk? 20 years away from Scotland made me forget about that nonsense. What effect will it have on Catholic voters? How tragic if such nonsense pushed people towards Yes.

Agree with Phaedra. Hopefully Catholics (and people of all persuasions and none) will realise this is not a debate which should be drawn across religious, racial or political lines.

It's about whether Scotland's jobs and our children's prospects are better served by being a devolved part of a 65M-population market, or a 5M country with a 60M 'bitter neighbour' as a competitor.