Page 37 | Indyref 9

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 12/09/2014 23:50

Farage and Salmond are two sides of the same coin imho.

falseeconomy · 12/09/2014 23:50

Platypus, I don't understand your ideas about currency.
Do you mean Scotland should have the same currency arrangements as the Isle of Man or Gibraltar?
or would we be better with a currency union?
Am undecided and trying to get my head around the currency arguments.
What do you mean by we don't control the pound now?
I need to get clearer about these things! Thank you.

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 12/09/2014 23:52

so, just out of interest, all you no voters- do you still live at home with your parents? and get pocket money? at what point did you think about moving out and doing the scary going on your own? that's the way I see it

livingzuid · 12/09/2014 23:53

Platypus I'm interested to know what it is that is so bad right now from your perspective? Where I am, without wanting to be too obvious, there is a lot of redevelopment, to the tune of billions, lots of potential for the future and everyone is excited. Glasgow has just had the Commonwealth Games, Edinburgh always looks fabulous. There's the new Forth Road Bridge going in, they've finished the rail bridge and also the A9 up to Inverness is being turned into a dual carriageway is it not (a pity to ruin the scenery but that's another thing). I know this is all big city stuff but this has a ripple effect too.

But it wouldn't have been possible, any of it, without being part of the UK. One of the things that struck me the most was that if Scotland leaves the UK it will not be part of the EU any more. So what happens to all the European Regional Development Fund money which actually funds the majority of this stuff? Scotland won't be a part of the EU any more so does it mean all this is in jeopardy? And if there is a reduced spend per head where is the money going to come from to keep funding these important infrastructure projects? I don't want the bridge to fall into the Forth whilst I'm driving across

I know there are areas of real deprivation which is a crime in this day and age, but I really don't understand how a change in government and going independent (which will cause complete chaos it really will because that is just what happens in life) is going to help them.

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 12/09/2014 23:54

Living I would agree with Spirited - you are right to have concerns but you have so much on your plate with a recent huge move/upheaval, working ft, a young baby and working away from your baby soon as well, try not to let this add to your burden

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 12/09/2014 23:56

falseeconomy- the snp has said they would seek a currency union. the problem is that we will have no answer on whether or not we can keep the pound until it happens, for definite. but I would be very surprised if we weren't allowed to keep the pound.

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/09/2014 23:56

OK. Credit Suisse's analysis (have you read it btw, it is worth reading) says that a currency union would have strict requirements probably including a budgetary surplus. There's different figures which can be lifted but in total last year Scottish revenue including Geo share of oil was £53 billion. Our expenditure was £65billion

Info I saw earlier (will try to find) suggested that to make sterlingization work we'd need to run a surplus of 5-10% for several years to build up the reserves to make us stable. So that potentially means a surplus of up to £5 or so billion. On top of the almost £12 billion to get us in to the plus. £17 billion, potentially. From a current expenditure of £65.

Now these numbers are rough,I've included current and capital expenditure, different agreements may be reached, etc etc etc. But they also assume absolutely no loss of revenue, which may well not be the case given what we are seeing and hearing just now.

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 12/09/2014 23:56

Platypus, with respect, when a teen moves out of the parental home it does not necessarily have a negative economic impact on the teen's whole family and social network and potentially reduce their employment opportunities....

BardarbungaBardarbing · 12/09/2014 23:58

Paraphrasing now but:

Do not fear and have faith,

Sounds more like religion than a well thought out plan, Platypus.

Mammuzza · 12/09/2014 23:58

Looking at that list...

On paper Italy has such a wealth of resources that it makes my frustration at having to plan to ensure my son's future abroad ... boil over.

What it doesn't have to offer is certainty and stability.

Which leads to a reticence to invest, on both domestic and overseas fronts.

Leaving all those abundant resources squandered, unused, rotting and unable to aid the country be what it could be. With investement they could be exploited and put to good use to an bring an end to the needless poverty, insecurity and inequality that plagues the lives of so many people here.

I wish there were a way for me to pick up and run off with the asset of certainty and stability so many people seem to regard as an optional extra.

I'd bite your hand off for it so my boy could realistically have a future living in the same country as his parents.

And so would countless people in so many other countires all over the globe.

EarthWindFire · 12/09/2014 23:59

but I would be very surprised if we weren't allowed to keep the pound.

The SNP can seek what they like. It doesn't mean it will happen.

WildThong · 13/09/2014 00:00

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squoosh · 13/09/2014 00:02

the snp has said they would seek a currency union. the problem is that we will have no answer on whether or not we can keep the pound until it happens, for definite. but I would be very surprised if we weren't allowed to keep the pound.

A currency union with Scotland would be an election loser for the UK parties. Do not bank on a currency union. The UK won't owe Scotland anything.

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 13/09/2014 00:02

living- like I said, for me things are good, but I see that children are living in poverty, and people in Scotland are struggling due to policy. I think the resurgence of food banks is horrendous, that people can't feed themselves and their families. That's just not right. I'm prepared to pay more so that families can have enough to eatt

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 13/09/2014 00:02

In the extremely unlikley event Scotland is chucked out of the EU (and it won't be, there is no mechanism and no precedent for this situation) we would no longer be paying vast sums of money into the EU. So, we keep that money in Scotland, and spend it as we please. If nothing else, that would ensure that the EU "farming subsidy" that was supposed to come back to Scotland actually would benefit our farmers rather than being redistributed via WM.

livingzuid · 13/09/2014 00:02

OldLadyKnowsSomething Of course I did my research. I'm not a child and I was involved in negotiations at my previous job if independence was a yes. I also had a baby in the crucial months the debate hotted up.

I knew it would be a good debate but didn't think it would descend into this nightmare. It is distressing for many other reasons aside from economical to see my country be so divided and upsetting to see people being taken in by lies and fantasy.

Spiritedwolf · 13/09/2014 00:03

I know I've linked to it a lot.... but as Platypus might not have read my earlier posts...

Have you read Carol Craig's piece in the Scottish Review? Towards the end she talks about the chance of Scotland becoming a 'leaner, meaner' Scotland because of the budgetary constraints and the influence of libertarians. The first part of her article explains why optimism isn't the best paradagram for viewing something where the consequences of failure are catastrophic.

I am a left of centre voter. I have friends voting yes because like you they believe that Scotland will or could become more socialist. I understand that hope, truly. But I don't think it is based on the facts of what are on offer.

squoosh · 13/09/2014 00:06

I too think it's a disgrace that so many people rely on food banks. But why hasn't the Scottish government done anything to relieve the need for them? Has it occurred to you that the existence of food banks in Scotland have served the SNP very well in their quest for independence, as they get to bemoan them whilst pointing their finger in the direction of WM saying 'it was that big boy that did it'?

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 13/09/2014 00:11

funnily enough, I have not posted on the dreaded FB about this issue, but this is an anonymous forum, so I thought I was ok to post here. I will not "fuck off" to Facebook, but hey, I'm getting a really negative vibe here, so I'll just bow out. I'm not into trying to convert people, I thought, having been a member of MN for several years that I would get a decent cerebral argument here, but hey ho. you want me to fuck off, fine!

StatisticallyChallenged · 13/09/2014 00:12

There is no mechanism and precedent for this situation...no, there's not. Scotland is not a member state. The UK is. It is highly likely that the UK would be the continuing state. Even lawyers for yes have admitted that.

livingzuid · 13/09/2014 00:12

And as for your comments on the EU they have already said that Scotland would not have automatic entry and would have to apply for membership, and for use of the Euro, separately. Does the Yes campaign somehow have a hotline to Brussels that the rest of us don't?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26173004

Things are not as straightforward as the SNP would have people believe. But what does it matter. People will believe anything they are told if it suits them, this referendum has shown that. Even if it is completely untrue.

squoosh · 13/09/2014 00:12

No one said 'fuck off to facebook'.

WildThong · 13/09/2014 00:13

Who said "fuck off" to you?
Did you make that up too pet? Never mind, don't let the truth get in the way.

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 13/09/2014 00:18

oh sorry, " off you trot" - think I'd have preferred fuck off!

Spiritedwolf · 13/09/2014 00:18

In addition, I see my country as Scotland, UK. I want to fight for (and win) social justice for 63 million people not just 5.3 million. The uncertainty over independence - it could take years to negotiate the detail of extracting ourselves from the union, I suspect lawyers will be involved and it'll cost a fortune - I think that many people will suffer hardship. If we stick with the union we will have devolution to protect the things we need to protect, and can vote in a government that will make things better for people throughout the UK not just Scotland.