I don't know why it took me so long to turn to mumsnet to express my feelings for the upcoming referendum. I wish I had and wasn't such a latecomer to this thread - it might have helped me through what has been a surprisingly tumultuous few weeks 
My apologies if this is incredibly long - lots to get off my chest I reckon, several questions and I don't expect a response to any of it. I know this is AIBU which I normally avoid and I guess this ramble will be torn to shreds, but I'm getting quite upset about everything and I can't believe I moved my family all the way over here into this situation.
So thank you in advance for allowing me a space to get it all out and sorry for being so boringly prosy. I don't know people at work well enough to discuss it and my family are so militantly nationalistic that you can't have a sensible debate. My husband is Dutch and removed from the whole thing. He tries to understand but can't see what the fuss is about
Just a bit of context - father's side Scottish, lived overseas for long periods of my life but long holidays in summer and winter in Scotland. Lots of family here still. After far too long in London I had the pleasure of three years in the Netherlands. And then, after marriage we moved back to Scotland with our baby only a month ago, driven mainly by economic need and party to spend some time in this beautiful country.
At the time of making that decision, little did I realise how much impact this referendum would have on us. Looking at things from the Netherlands, I wasn't surprised that people would vote to go their own way and didn't dream I would get so caught up in all the action. Hmmm where to begin? And this is just my own feelings on the subject of course and I'm not trying to move people one way or another. Throughout this process we have to respect the right to debate and disagreement. Such is democracy. OK so....
The media suck. I have never seen so much warped reporting, not even with that loon Farage and predominantly focussed against the BT campaign. I was really shocked at how vitriolic the press were being both UK wide and within Scotland. Those papers that have been pro-union I thought provided almost comical arguments for the union. It's a disgrace. How can anyone hope to make up their mind about things, looking for a neutral opinion with them using every single angle to make a story? Whatever the outcome this time next week, they have done as much as any politician to sow discontent and discord among millions in the pursuit of the next big headline and jumping on the scaremongering bandwagon or creating the impression of hysteria and worry. Messing with people's lives just to stick one at the coalition, not just giving people the facts in an impartial way makes me so angry. I know it sounds naive of me as they do it all the time but it just seems wrong.
I am very fortunate with the benefit of education, internet, living in the EU with the Euro and all the pros and cons of that particular deal - all sorts of things enabling me to think independently of any political party to reach my decision. I have heard people without the advantages I have had say they are confused as to what to do, the debates are confusing, the messages are so different, and they are afraid of which one to do in case it is the wrong thing. What an important decision this is for us all, yet without clear and impartial guidance they have nothing to go on, just the word of some political party wooing you to do their bidding.
We live in the heartland of the SNP which I had no idea until someone at work explained the local politics to me. There was an overwhelming amount of Yes signs until a flurry of No Thanks appeared in defiance (I think) after the poll last week with the Yes lead. So many of these were promptly destroyed or disfigured and I have heard lots of reports of people who had No signs in their window leading to destruction of property. I know that it has happened to people who had Yes displayed which is equally wrong, but there has been a disproportionate amount of attacks in this area certainly against No supporters.
The BT campaign should have sacked their campaign manager a long time ago. Not really sure why they haven't yet which is rather bizarre. The Yes campaign definitely have the better campaign. And I HATE Salmond, Sturgeon and co with a passion and always have done. I haven't seen anything in this latest political battle to convince me that they are not a bunch of self-serving hypocrites, no better than what they disparage so much in Westminster, spreading lies and hysteria wherever they go, sucking in innocent people. Their habit of targeting those most deprived with promises of whatever they want and that all they have to do is free themselves of those nasty people in Westminster I find particularly abhorrent. But they definitely have the better campaign. They are good at the grassroots stuff which the BT lot should have started to counter a long time ago.
I feel sympathy for the Yes campaign who are trying to show that this is not about the SNP. Change has to happen so badly for the whole of the UK. But you know what, you have the SNP as the leading party on the campaign, their faces all over the place and really there is nothing else to expect but that this vote becomes about the SNP and their political allies vs the other lot. You can't pretend otherwise. This is what it has disintegrated to, which is such a pity as I think the Yes debate outside of this nationalistic nonsense has a very valid point.
I know people who are voting Yes just to be in with a chance to get rid of the SNP. And I guess logically, if the vote does go to a Yes then there is no reason for them to exist so I hope they retreat to wherever they came from - which would have swayed me if nothing else did! Sorry to the SNP supporters on this thread but Nationalism in this form is, in my humble opinion, incredibly dangerous and divisive, as we are seeing playing out before our very eyes.
I am a No voter. Lots of reasons why. I was very sympathetic to the Yes campaign whilst in the Netherlands bizarrely enough. Reading the White Paper, following the arguments, looking at the plain nastiness of the campaign, racism in some cases and bullying tactics being employed made me the opposite. It turned this into Scotland vs England, Scottish vs English and if you look at much of the language of Yes supporters (not the SNP they are too clever for that), then you see this attracts exactly the type of thing it is not.
I think Salmond is selling people a fairy tale. And to be blunt, I've got no interest in us all merrily pulling together to get through any hard times with all this 'we can do it' bs. I have no doubt that in the long term, things would be fine. Things always work out in the end. But right now, and for many years ahead, I have a family to feed and I am the only earner. That kind of freedom talk makes me want to vomit.
And how dare they hijack the flag?! I couldn't tell you why but that made me so cross. I just think it should have been left in that apolitical area.
The main reason I am a No voter though, is that I think this debate is above politics. Politicians come and go. I think the majority of them are useless both here and down South. I was lucky enough to be in Brighton at the last election when we voted in Caroline Lucas who I admire greatly. But come the next election they will be gone. So why get so worked up about who is in power right now? Why can't we all club together and work together and bloody well get out there and vote every election so it does make a difference?
But this isn't about parties I don't think. It's so fundamental. Do we want to go it alone or do we want to be with others? It's a no brainer to me. Everyone works better in a team, that's why there are partnerships at work, life, all over the place. Why would we want to isolate ourselves? So much of the Union works well outside of politics. Really well. I don't see any oppression from Westminster and I get angry when I see that language. It's hardly Palestine or Syria or Turkey. We really are better together. We are a country of less than 5 million, yet just over the border we have friends and supporters who count up to over 50 million people. Why would we abandon that? It gives us more clout on the world stage, more negotiating power, more protection, credit, all sorts of things.
I have long thought a federal structure would suit the UK, not just here but all over. But show me, as Scotland, how you are so hard done by right now. The education is separate. The NHS is separate, with the money ring-fenced. The legal system is separate. Three of the most important things that you already have control over. Of course there is room for more, but there are other ways to get there rather than this referendum which has plunged everything into madness. I'm not prepared to break something that isn't broken.
Practical things - there is a real risk I would lose my job. There are loads of jobs at risk. Tens of thousands of jobs. Money has been flowing south since the referendum was announced way back when. That's not scaremongering, that's fact and I know it is because I work with people whose responsibility it is to look after these things. How could they have people sat in fear and anxiety about job losses? How could they put people through that for some strange moral belief that they are right to push for independence? Just the debate alone has caused huge uncertainty, which is not the BT's camp's fault.
It is the nature of money markets and stock exchanges to dislike uncertainty. Which will just get worse after a Yes vote because the SNP haven't got a bloody clue what to do if it is a Yes vote. They weren't prepared for this. And 18 months to make your country independent, negotiate with the EU and figure out what on earth currency people will be paid in all on 250 million is hardly a sign of living in the real world.
I don't want to struggle for work. How the hell would I provide for my family? I am trying not to cry right now thinking of it, and every day I come home with my heart in my mouth at the thought. I just got here. What did I bring my family into? I'm fortunate as I can get on the boat and go back to the Netherlands if it all goes Pete Tong but so many don't have that.
And dammit I am British. I don't want to leave. I like the UK. I know all about my Scottish heritage, I had it rammed down my throat for the first 15 years of my life every summer and winter. It's a wonderful history. But it's shared with three other countries as well. What's wrong with that? This whole campaign has really knocked the relationship with the other countries and I find that very sad.
It is so scary to me how people will just get caught up in the spin and hype and just all charge around shouting Yes and not think about the consequences. It is not as simple as 'we want self-determination'. Think about the sheer volume of what it means to be independent. That's not scaremongering buy the way, that is just fact to ponder on what it means and what needs to be done. And the cost of it. Which, by the way, I saw an FT article stating it would be between 2-4 billion to just do the separation a couple of weeks ago. Who gets stuck with that bill?
Do some people honestly believe that a change in government will happen smoothly? That it doesn't involve anything else aside from deciding what a new government would look like and off we trot?
And when Scotland is separate, if the Yes vote has its way, why for God's sake do you think that the 50 million people south of the border will care what happens to the just under 5 million north of it? The responsibility of Westminster to Scotland will end. They will look to their own electorate. And, if that electorate quite justifiably don't want anyone using their pound, then Westminster is quite right in seeking to ensure that is the case. How hard is that to understand? Scotland will be owed nothing. Such is the nature of independence.
And how the eff can you be independent when you are reliant on someone else's Central Bank! Why would you want to be! Why would you want to use a currency illegally?! How is that going to help your country do business!
I lived in the Eurozone for three years and it was a) double the price of everything once the Dutch went from the Guilder to the Euro so uber expensive and b) they really felt the cosh from the ECB during the recession which they are still recovering from. Selecting the Euro as your currency when you go from a currency as strong (and I don't mean in exchange rates) as the pound is not a move I would like to see. This is not the same as countries such as Romania and Bulgaria joining where having the Euro is a benefit. Wonderful though the EU is in many ways there are still many problems with entering in a currency union there.
And as for the oil debate, urgh. Can't go there. Best not. I hate how this whole thing has divided a nation. What's going to happen with the 50% who weren't happy with a result? Either way, so many people will be heartbroken, really upset. I have visited pensioners who are in tears when they talk about this, and not to do with pensions but distraught at the thought of leaving a Union they are so proud to be a part of.
The one benefit to this is that the referendum has inspired debate across the UK and will, one way or another, lead to much needed change throughout the country. Our whole system of governance is outdated and needs a thorough overhaul. I am praying for a No vote as I believe we can all work together to effect that change, but in a way that still sees us united.
I had questions. I am so confused about the motivations of a Yes voter and I know loads of people won't agree with me but that's ok. Healthy discussion and all that. Life would be boring if we all agreed with each other. In the advent of that vote succeeding, I want to understand very badly so I can accept it all and hopefully move on from all of this and make my peace internally because I really am conflicted and sad. But this post is too long as it is. To those who'd say, well read the threads, I am a working mother with a three month old baby. Having the luxury of reading through 9 threads is a thing of the past :D Being able to sit down and write all of this is a rare moment of peace!
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