Indyref8

[grovel]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but who will be Prime Minister? Pretty unsatisfactory changing halfway through. My suggestion was that maybe Cameron, Clegg, Miliband et al agree on a team and step back themselves. It would make the end result a joint enterprise and could prevent years of feuding in rUK.

sc I can't actually remember the last time I saw my belly button

cambio

"AS is still beavering away with his calculator? (Actually pretty sure AS doesn't own a calculator...)

Maybe it's batteries have run out?
(Like iScotland's is going to, long before they've set up the 200 new bodies they will need).

There isn't enough money, sadly. iScotland could be a great idea, but not like this, all rhetoric and bluster (and quite a lot of bullying) but very little substance.

AS AD forum leaves it there for the evening slippery fingers strikes again

Will they actually be there, in Mumsnet HQ, typing away? Or are their minions preparing word documents from which to cut and paste answers which have been planned, researched and checked?

Will they do the thread remotely? How will we know they are there?

That's what I wondered. They must be in Scotland, can't see them nipping down to big bad London for the day.

Yes voters have been away out yessing. I was just on the news.

Why is George Galloway dressed up as a frank Sinatra tribute act?

He looks like a cast member of Bugsy Malone who's fallen on very, very, very hard times.

squoosh

I think the simplest thing all around would be to postpone the GE in the event of a Yes

If the result's "Yes" I think there's been some talk of holding the election when due, but without Scots being able to vote because their MPs soon wouldn't be able to sit in parliament anyway? I obviously have no idea if they'll do this, but it was certainly mentioned

Interesting that several posters have suggested all they've being promised is the chance for independence ... considering the land of milk and honey that Salmond has referred to at every opportunity, I find that just a bit odd

The last indy thread ended before I could post this reply.

cryside there is a status quo of the UK. Of course governments and policies change. Trotting out the " oh but everything might change " line as an argument is very silly. For goodness sake I was alive (although not old enough to vote) when Wilson and Heath were in power.

What you are suggesting is not comparable to a change of government. There is no going back. As far as I'm concerned you are destroying my country for no good reason.

The first thing I voted in was the first referendum and I voted no then and no in the second one too.

Well with Murdoch in their corner Yes must be feeling confident

Well The Sun will come out for Yes but I wouldn't overestimate the Murdoch support.

Did someone really think that no state infrastructure is needed because there is a parliament already? Oh dear me.

The Murdoch connection would concern me if I was Scottish He will,have his eye on the TV/ media opportunities

Has The Sun "come out" as a yes backer yet? Murdoch's revenge in Cameron for the hacking scandal.

Murdoch being involved is NEVER good news.
He isn't interested in Scotland's best interests, just lining his own (well lined already) pockets.

Checking in for this thread.

That list of 200 organisations has made me feel sick.

I wonder if there's a feeling from Yes voters that it must be doable, or it wouldn't be being suggested by people in power? There is just no other way to explain how easily people seem to be buying into the fantasy.

Tbh, whilst I never agreed with the ideology, I had some sympathy with it, and I have defended Alex Salmond in the past as someone who I thought had integrity, albeit misguided.

Having read so much of the detail over the past couple of weeks, I now find him to be at best, morally disingenuous; at worst, an outright conniving rogue.

Phaedra

Many Scots voted Yes at the last referendum only because they had respect and love for Donald Dewar who was fronting it. Donald is dead though and Salmond is no Dewar.

onenight

Oh, yes, Dewar is a Colossus compared to Salmond.
Bit like John Smith and bloody Blair (literally bloody with his wars)

Is this thread still a discussion?

I can't believe that there is any dispute about the robustness of an independent Scottish economy, and worse, whether Scotland could use the pound!? I'm sure none of you are facile enough to present that argument in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Even the Financial Times, as the bastion of mainstream hyper-capitalism maintains the absolute nonsense of that claim.

This is undoubtedly an emotional issue to this vote, and I am hugely sympathetic to that. My mother in law is confusing the referendum with the loss of her husband, but that's because she has dementia and truly believes she's living in 1950 where a scots/english marriage was a 'thing'. GUYS, this is 2014, it's not a thing. And not only that, but we live in a post-national economic global context and you're all banging on as if we're in the 1960s... westfalia sovereignty is NO MORE. We are now looking at a new internationalism which is utterly unsustainable if we continue to allow all of our assets to be leached off by multi-nat corporations - under these terms the UK is not competitive and we will continue to shrivel. There is nothing good about the current regime. I totally empathise, but people here are confusing their emotions about their ethnicity with issues of civic governance. This is about having. Regardless of the outcome of this vote, you will remain British as this is our culture and we live in the geographic region of the British Isles. It's not about identity, it's about power of representation, of which we have none in Scotland.

The UK is so far gone, that the only comfort I can take is that at least with independence we'd have some control over that and could make the timeline of change shorter. Westminster parties are going to run the place into the ground and sell off the last of our national assets before any change happens there. You don't want to be a part of change that's forced out of necessity because the unsustainable system crashes and burns - best to pre-empt it and change it now. You guys have got it right to a great degree in Germany. You at least have an industrial policy and a properly regulated banking sector... there's lots that could be done quite simply but there's no will for it in any of the Westminster parties and no chance to change it within the timescale that change needs to happen to avoid/mitigate for ecological and economic disaster. Guide estimate is five years till the next banking bust. We all know about the carbon projections... grim times ahead.

Did you see the Monbiot piece? The sharp ones among us will have a good read, but I'd suggest that those of you enjoy an 'accident of birth inheritance of the world' not apply your dimtillect to this, because ladies, you probably won't get it: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/09/yes-vote-in-scotland-most-dangerous-thing-of-all-hope?CMP=twt_gu

This is an excerpt from Dewar's speech to the Labour Party Conference:

Enough of the SNP - the politics of illusion are not for us.

Our politics are grounded in the reality of making devolution work for the people of Scotland.

What we must do is - turn the pledges we have given into promises delivered.

We are in the business of securing real and lasting change

I give you the first sentence for consideration.

The only thing that matters is the right to govern the country ourselves free from the prospect of ever having to be run by a Tory Government again. That will do for starters

Oh dear. You do know it wasn't that long ago that the Tories were the majority party in Scotland. If this disaster happens I'll be very surprised indeed if the voters of Perthshire don't revert back to a right wing party.

Given the utter lunacy of some in the Yes side I'll also not be surprised if the liberal middle classes in Scotland who vote Labour and Lib Dem take fright and move rapidly to the right.

I have voted Labour in every election I've ever voted in since 1979. If this happens I will vote whatever the equivalent of Conservative is with no hesitation.

I can't believe it has come to this: We (Scotland AND UK)are staring over the precipice, half of Scotland want to jump, and half want to stay. Trouble is they are all roped together! If you jump, it's a long way down, and there is no coming back.
I say we because its apparent that the political and financial shocks will hit rUK as well, and reverberate around the EU and the world.
All down to Salmond's smoke and mirrors BS that does not stand up to any real scrutiny in the main.
The world has gone crazy and will get even more so in the event of a yes vote.
Please, any undecideds, vote NO!

That list of 200 is frightening. Do they understand the work and complexity involved in setting up just 1 government agency - let alone agencies to match the functions of 200?!