Indyref8

[grovel]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but who will be Prime Minister? Pretty unsatisfactory changing halfway through. My suggestion was that maybe Cameron, Clegg, Miliband et al agree on a team and step back themselves. It would make the end result a joint enterprise and could prevent years of feuding in rUK.

Me either. Rumours are this is going to be a swing back to "No"

To be honest, things seem to be moving so quickly at the moment that I'm not sure how much relevance we should attribute to a poll that was carried out last week.

You're saying the kids my sister is teaching now and those my mother spent her whole career teaching are doomed to idiocy after a certain point? I know teachers are being squeezed hard with the whole Nats business but a good teacher is a good teacher.

I read that as a Rose criticising the Curriculum for Excellence rather than making a dig at those who teach it.

Yes, but you definitely would not have any human rights protected by the court (the European Court of Human Rights) or enforced by the Council of Europe (which is very effective in doing so against errant member states in particular) on independence sconequeen. Scotland, as a State, has never signed the ECHR and needs to put a lot of elements in place first before it could do so.

Therefore independence means creating a country where, if it wished to do so, the Government could pass legislation to make you sell your house, if it deemed it too large for your needs, and buy it at a price lower than its MV. Or it could, if its economy failed and it needed bailing out, take 90% of the money in your bank account to pay for it.

These are exaggerated examples. Most abuses of human rights occur on a more local, personal level.

Do you see where I'm coming from though? I'm not against independence per se (although doubtful I'd want to live in such a small country unless I was retired), but the record of the Scottish Government thus far has kind of indicated it wouldn't be very respectful of individual rights and freedoms.

Any well educated Scottish Mumsnetters will have come through the Scottish education system before this lot got their hands on it

It doesn't look that way to me, squoosh. Rose's post suggests to me that no-one can emerge from the current Scottish system well-educated, regardless of other factors.

Yes, but you definitely would not have any human rights protected by the court (the European Court of Human Rights) or enforced by the Council of Europe (which is very effective in doing so against errant member states in particular) on independence sconequeen. Scotland, as a State, has never signed the ECHR and needs to put a lot of elements in place first before it could do so.

But, Chelsy, we would have a constitution and a government elected by he Scottish electorate, with manifestos backing them. We are not going to turn into a tinpot dictatorship. You've said yourself that you are exaggerating. I know that this is a big decision but people need to keep a grip on reality. This is a superb opportunity for a more democratic and fairer society.

Or you could stick with WM, but remember that it is not exactly known for its love of the ECHR... The credibility of the three main WM parties is now shot totally to shreds. It's a telling indictment of what we will continue to stick with it.

what we will continue to stick with it.

Sorry, typing a bit rushed. Should have read: ...what we will get if we continue to stick with it.

I am a teacher in Scotland and my children are going through the system. It is ill thought out and vague. It does not demand much of many pupils. No, they will not be idiots - far from it. But they will not be anything like as well educated as the generations who have gone before. Regardless of the quality of the teacher (and most are Excellent) or the pupil (the vast majority of whom work hard and want to do well) the system does not allow for this. Too much time is taken up with silly little assessments, or training pupils in one tiny skill. There is, at secondary level, too much vague project work or working in groups.

It leaves no time for a classroom teacher to push children to be all at they can be.

Any well educated (ie educated well) Mumsnetter will have come through education before this lot got their hands on it. I do not believe that anyone emerging from this system will have been educated well. I think they will have been taught well but, at secondary level, we are bound by the exit point requirements ( exams etc) so have little freedom to do what pupils need.

I could go on, and on and on. Apologies if my post was taken the wrong way. I thought my fairly strident views on the state of education nowadays were well known. I am pro-teacher and pro-pupil but very much against the system as it stands.

I just worry that the cons will have long memories and not too fond of Scotland after all this - had to blame them to a degree. This has kicked up a lot of anti Scottish feelings. Thatcher took out her resentment on Scotland as she saw them as being whinging upstarts who didn't vote for her. I'm worried about Scotland going it alone and I'm also worried if they choose to stay (which i think they will). A lot of damage has been done.

Also, pupils used to do 8/9 subjects in S4. Now, some schools have carried on with this model (mostly private ones) but my own school, in line with council policy, as advised by HMI, is offering 6.

That is only part of what is wrong. Won't derail any longer.

But, they can't be trusted if this is what they do to a world class education system.

I understand where you're coming from Rose, sorry for being nippy. I thought you were just Scotland bashing (following from Chelsy's suggestions that Scots in the main are not sufficiently educated to understand their own political system) but I do recognise your concerns, coming from a family of teachers

Thanks, my first flowers (being secondary we only get the occasional grunt from our pupils, or a half smile - none of the flowers, chocolates or other treats given by small children),

Bambambini, I think the penny is dropping in rUK that a Yes vote could cost taxpayers billions (sorting out Trident etc) and will take 40+ Labour MPs out of the equation in Westminster. It won't just be Tories with a grudge.

Re new powers if we vote for no...
www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/referendum-news/hague-giving-scotland-more-powers-if-it-votes-no-is-not-government-policy.1410350878

Pretty sloppy reporting not to mention the purdah but there we go.

Corey I understand where you're coming from Rose, sorry for being nippy. I thought you were just Scotland bashing (following from Chelsy's suggestions that Scots in the main are not sufficiently educated to understand their own political system) but I do recognise your concerns, coming from a family of teachers

Is there any chance you could stop making up things I have said and spinning stuff to make others people look bad? Its extremely dishonest. What kind of person are you? I can write for myself, I don't need you to attempt to interpret it.

Bambambini I agree.

He's saying that to avoid Purdah issues ItsAllGoingToBeFine, not because they're saying they won't do it.

Will Scotland become a country people actually want to live in (beyond Yes voters)? Or will it become a country people want to get out of, if they can afford it?

Its a good point about some wealthy Yes voters having much of their money sitting outside Scotland, or at least their risk spread.

NEW POLL RESULTS

New #indyref poll from @Survation
No 47.6% Yes 42.4% DK 9.9%
Excluding undecideds:
No 53% Yes 47%
Same as two months ago.

just released

I would dearly love to know where Salmond keeps his millions. He is a gambling man so will have assessed risk and placed his bets.

He doesn't need to store them anywhere. Like all the political class, he will walk into a couple of non-executive director roles, an advisory role and possibly an overpaid role on an international body gravy train. Once you get to a certain high level in the public sector/politics, you are guaranteed never to have to worry again about the mundane troubles that other people have - paying the mortgage, having to find a job in a different country to do so, etc..

So very true ChelsyHandy. You forgot the tell all autobiography though...

Interesting link, ItsAllGoingToBeFine I imagine many will already have taken the confused remarks about "further powers" as the sort of thing which is said during campaigns, especially since it's never reached the level of formal policy

Some, though, have leapt upon them and cried "they've said it so now they'll HAVE to do it." Unfortunately this rather ignores the fact that the results aren't yet in, negotiations haven't yet started and that when they do, it won't just be the Scots' needs which are taken into account

Some of us south of the border have views about being expected to pay for yet more privileges for others and expect the politicians to take account of these too

Oh - a tell all autiobiography. I hope it' like Valierie Trierweiler's- all sleeping pills and hysterics

PUzzled they absolutely have to say it's not government policy. Otherwise they'd be in breach of electoral regs.

"Puzzled they absolutely have to say it's not government policy. Otherwise they'd be in breach of electoral regs"

Dead convenient, isn't it?