Indyref8

[grovel]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but who will be Prime Minister? Pretty unsatisfactory changing halfway through. My suggestion was that maybe Cameron, Clegg, Miliband et al agree on a team and step back themselves. It would make the end result a joint enterprise and could prevent years of feuding in rUK.

Statistically
Unproductive for everyone? Goodness!

You appear to be taking the tone of Queen Bee. I don't doubt that you are well read and I even agree with quite a few of your opinions but it's not up to you to set the agenda or the tine of the debate

To be fair starwars , statistically has probably been the most useful, moderate, well researched and even handed poster on the No side. Other No posters do may deserve your ire, but statistically doesn't.

taz its shareprice went up last week on the back of that sale. then it dropped Monday after the results of the shock poll (the whole FTSE did). The shareprice has gained again since Standard's announcement.

Stat please don't check out. I think you are remarkably restrained and measured.

However, if there aren't many Undecided voters on this thread - or reading it - we are perhaps wasting our energy.

A friend has just posted on FB about a 3pm gathering at the foot of Arthur's Seat on Sunday. A Better Together show from the air.

Honestly?? How can you credibly line yourself up with the Arab spring??

And I'm sure the irony of this will be lost on you, but you already have democracy - that's why you are having a vote

starwars please stop. Statistically has been on every thread and contributed a huge amount of useful information in a calm and I believe balanced way. She is certainly not the Queen Bee type as far as I can tell,

Wow, I agree with ItsAllGoing

Gee itsall talk about damned with faint praise. You are so snidey, I'm off too. Hope you're happy now.

Well Weatherall and IrnBru are doing a wonderful job of persuading me of the dangers of voting Yes. I still have had no answer why she places so much trust in a proven liar. And not one lost in the mists of but one which was a major part of his argument.

I think she or someone else tried to suggest it didn't matter as many yes voters don't care about the EU. That is irrelevant. It was a lie he was caught out on. Are you all confident it was the only one?

Itsall

I don't like being told off in such a manner. Who would?
The written word can be brutal. And emotions are high. So perhaps we can all be a bit more careful with our wording

Gee itsall talk about damned with faint praise. You are so snidey, I'm off too. Hope you're happy now

Eh?

elastamum
Read my post, especially the bit about democracy

oh dear, I think we all need and

I am saying that the people who fight for their freedom and for democracy, losing their lives, undergoing torture, surveillance and everything else that goes with dictatorships etc, will be utterly incredulous that our country, given the the choice peacefully and democratically, decides that , nah, it's ok really, we don't really want independence.

That is a ridiculously inflammatory post.

One could easily say why on earth would Scotland take a leap into the unknown for no good reason with nothing planned or costed.

Very disappointed in ADs answer to my question on further powers

No it's not. I have lived overseas and that is exactly how it will be seen by many people.

But the inflammatory bit is interesting. It's the whole waggy finger nature of it that i object to. Say you disagree certainly, argue with passion, prove I'm wrong but to dismiss as inflammatory is just a telling off. And most people's reaction to that is Fuck Right Off. Which is probably imflammitory

Roonerspism I don't see evidence of "investors are delighted" in today's SL share price movement. The shares closed at 408p yesterday and opened at 401p this morning. They went ex dividend today so not an unexpected drop. Late morning they went up to around 408p and have been in a decline since- currently sitting at 406p (2:10PM). I see normal movement, not delighted investors on the back of an independence statement movement.

starwarslegoboy I think the rest of the world know more about the unique British socio-political arrangements than you them credit for.

And value the immense, generally positive, contribution the UK has made in almost every field (far more, it seems, than some of the natives).

You have lived overseas so you can speak for the entire international community. Yes right, of course.

Equally they could view it the same way as I view Basque and Quebec separatists.

starwarslegoboy I think the rest of the world know more about the unique British socio-political arrangements than you them credit for.

And value the immense, generally positive, contribution the UK has made in almost every field (far more, it seems, than some of the natives).

I think there's far more amazement that we're even thinking of ending such a successful union, without which Scotland (and its cultural icons) would be nowhere near as prosperous or reknowned as it is today.

I should add, I worked for Standard Life for many many years and still have a large shareholding and close ties to the Company. I'm a strong No voter and part of the reason is because I believe the financial services industry in Scotland will be badly damaged by a Yes vote and the indirect consequences of that will spread across the whole country. However, I don't think it helps the No side to exaggerate normal share price movement. The share price will be affected by the vote, but not today.

Mr Darling, the IMF are now saying that austerity doesn't work, yet all the parties are signed up to austerity except the Greens and the SNP. We know that the entirety of the UK growth is down to the London property market, and asset bubbles burst... so it appears that our economic policy favours investment in the form of speculation, instead of investment in the form of industrial development. We are very firmly headed in a direction of travel that is going to increase the reliance of the entire economy on the banking sector. Banking sector crashes come in 9 year cycles, so we've probably got about 5 years to reform the system so that we don't have a rerun (or worse?) of the 2007 crash. But I don't see any plans from the UK government to do this (are there plans that I've missed?) Why isn't there a will to reform this now so that the UK doesn't continue towards economic disaster?

Starwarslegoboy: The point you are missing is that maybe it is OK to vote no, because you already have the freedom that people in those states you cite are willing to die for.

You aren't oppressed, or run by a dictatorship, or being shelled, or living in mass poverty, or under surveillance in fear of your lives because of your beliefs.

wrong window!

I said many people. Particularity in the Middle East and yes, Arab nations.

There was much talk on here about how people were gutted that it might be a Yes, about how they might leave Scotland, how upset they are. I am expressing an opinion, based on experience, that many of the people fighting for rights and freedoms will be incredulous that we turned down the chance to govern ourselves. And that I find that intolerable. Now what is there in this that is so inflammatory? it is my opinion. I am ashamed at the prospect of discussing a No Vote with people outside the UK. Or is it the case that I have no right to feel that way, based on my experience.

There is some surprise that it IS happening certainly, obviously even with our rulers in WM. but they at least should have known it was coming. Many others in the western world don't realise that we are effectively disenfranchised, so are of course surprised that we would want to leave the party. But if they were enlightened as to the nature of Scottish 'democracy' then they might think otherwise.

Issy I know! words are beginning to blur on screen trying to keep up