Indyref8

[grovel]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but who will be Prime Minister? Pretty unsatisfactory changing halfway through. My suggestion was that maybe Cameron, Clegg, Miliband et al agree on a team and step back themselves. It would make the end result a joint enterprise and could prevent years of feuding in rUK.

I'm sure that's right, statistically.

I'll bring the Arab Spring into it if I want. Who are you to dictate what I can discuss? If you don't want to discuss it, then don't.

Raintown
I'n sorry, I disagree. They will not honour it. It will not be in their interests politically. And the only think we can do in response is revolt and that's not going to happen. So we will go back to the footie and Sky TV and Foodie shows and try to forget that everyone thinks that we are pathetic cowardly losers

ffallada, JP Morgan have released a statement stating that the risks with independence are due to the uncertainties associated with it. Banks will want to maintain stability and minimise disruption. They have said, "uncertainty over currency would be a key driver for future deposit flight, in our view. However, we expect the banks to re-domicile and move operations to minimise this risk". There is a very real chance that many financial institutions (not just banks and Insurers) will be thinking along the same lines as JP Morgan and Standard Life, they will not be alone in considering a strategy like this. This could have a massive impact on employment in Scotland.

No, I can post what I like, "within the rules" Why are you entitled to express your reaction to a Yes vote but I am being inflammatory.

And please refrain from calling posts 'ridiculous' simply because you disagree.

Do you know I regretted saying that as I posted!

I just don't think it's a wise example of change.

I'm leaving!

So standard life. The largest pension company in the uk? Not sure but up there. Is now going to move the money in the event of a yes vote. Publicly stated and apparently money is already being moved.

I. Told. You. So.

You see it wasn't scaremongering. It was simply asking questions and listening to the answers.

My house is on the market. As I suspect that the jobs will move anyway. You see the uncertainty is enough and the attitude of the yes campaign to keep asking for more votes until they get there way - so even if they lose and the vote goes no, jobs are going to move.

I need to feed my family with real money not a pipe dream. Not the flannel of a more decent society whatever that may actually mean.

Not worth the aggro..

Are you really comparing the Arab Springs and Palestine to Scotland voting for independence?

Bardarbungo
Look, it's ok, emotions are high with this. I reacted to being told what to do, as I'm sure you can understand. No need to leave, I'm not going to spar, honest!!!

starwarslegoboy It's not about being afraid to govern ourselves: we effectively do this already and further devolution will strengthen this autonomy.

Scotland cannot be compared to any other recently-independent state. It's not the repressed colony the SNP would have you believe. We created the Union and are a wealthy country because of it.

Other countries envy our Family of Nations and the fact we have our own distinct identity while benefitting from the UK's bigger platform.

Separation would bring enormous economic risks and dissolve this cultural & social union for good.

It'sallgoingtobefine You are wrong. Standard Life has strengthened its statement. It's on the front page of the Telegraph's site. Please read before posting inaccurate statements.

I don't think I am? I just prefer to read the original statement releaswd today, rather than a newspapers interpretation of it. As far as I can tell your newspaper story is based upon the statement I linked to: www.standardlife.com/utility/customer_statement-2.html

I said it was ridiculously inflammatory. Not that it was ridiculous. Your viewpoint that we won't get the promised powers is not what I was questioning. I stand by my view that comparing Scottish independence to the Arab spring and Palestine and saying we will get our ginger arses kicked, is inflammatory. If mumsnet wish to delete me for that I have no problem.

I am saying that the people who fight for their freedom and for democracy, losing their lives, undergoing torture, surveillance and everything else that goes with dictatorships etc, will be utterly incredulous that our country, given the the choice peacefully and democratically, decides that , nah, it's ok really, we don't really want independence.

I am not reporting you, nor did I suggest that I would. I disagree with you, but actually, the need for you to call my post ridiculously inflammatory, is in fact, ridiculously inflammatory. You calm down

starwars :
You are on a mission to change the world via the medium of rhetoric. I'm on MN to swap anecdotes really. No hard feelings.

Raintown
" It's not about being afraid to govern ourselves"
That's not the way the rest of the world will see it.

Checking out of thread for a while. Apparently I need to calm down. I didn't tell anyone else to calm down. I said calm the rhetoric down. After eight of these threads there are types of posts which tend to make things kick off and be very unproductive for everyone as a result.

None taken. I'm not on a mission btw but I do have a differing opinion than some on here, which I was under the impression was the point of a debate. From the comments posted by some on here, there is more of an interest in posting comments that might be seen by some undecideds, rather than engage in debate.

I'm expressing an opinion and I'm not trying to convert anyone

AS/AD webchat starting in 5 mins...

Roonerspism You said "Its shareprice has just gone up. Investors are delighted. Get the hell out of Scotland please and we'll stick with you." - re Standard Life.

I've been following along all 8 threads and whilst I do believe SL will move many jobs away from Edinburgh over the medium term if there is a Yes vote, the recent spike in the share price is on the back of last week's announcement that they are selling their Canadian operations , not on the back of independence speculation. The share price has dropped today, not gone up.

sc and bardar

Please don't be bullied off the thread.

I hope the Arab Spring analogy doesn't apply. Lots of toppled leaders has led to internecine war. They knew what they didn't want but are now killing each other for lack of a common vision.

I was trying to stay away from this today but in addition to poster upthread stating that BP agree with Sir Ian Wood's assessment of the remaining oil in the North Sea, Shell have also come out in agreement:

www.energyvoice.com/2014/09/scottish-independence-bps-bob-dudley-backs-sir-ian/

Now I know that this will not change the Yessers minds but if you are undecided think about this. BP and Shell haven't really got that much to loose in an independent Scotland as both are used to operating in volatile countries so why would they not be honest about such an important issue?

The oilmen don't think there is the volumes of oil left in the North Sea. Such a fact will have huge implications to a fledgling country - we will not have enough revenue coming in to pay our bills which is vitally important if we don't have a central bank.

Other large companies like Standard Life have been very clear to investors that it will move to England in the event of a Yes vote. This isn't a threat to the Yes campaign but to alleviate their investors fears who like stability (stability is good for the value of our pensions). We don't know what an independent Scotland will look like and this gives investors the jitters so companies will move out to save themselves, taking jobs with them.

It will take Scotland a long time to recover from a Yes vote and at a heavy cost both at a national level and to the lives of thousands possibly millions of people living here.

You may argue that millions seems excessive but if the finance jobs move south, many will either be unemployed or forced south. Both scenarios mean less people in work paying taxes and more people claiming benefits, all this at a time when the company has huge start up costs. But it will not be just those in the financial sector who are impacted, all of the businesses that rely on people having money in their pocket to spend, hairdressers, shops, estate agents, nurseries, restaurants, to name a few.

This vote is huge and in the event of a Yes vote to make many people's lives turn for the worse.

WildThong I've nothing to add bar news of huddled chats with dissidents up here in tartan suburbia!

When you find yourself tapping the keyboard like a maniac cos someone's talking up the Arab Spring , well it's time to take a break!